>> ALL RIGHT. IT IS SIX O'CLOCK. [00:00:02] I'M GOING TO CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. FIRST ITEM IS THE ROLL CALL, AND I'M PLEASED TO REPORT THAT ALL COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MAYOR ARE IN ATTENDANCE, AND WE'LL ASK ALL OF THEM, AS WELL AS ALL OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE TO JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> OF ALLEGIANCE]. >> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT. IS OUR REGULAR MEETING, AUGUST 25TH. THE FIRST ITEM IS TO APPROVE TONIGHT'S AGENDA. [Approval of Agenda] ANY ITEMS TO BE ADDED OR MOVED AROUND? >> YEAH, I'D LIKE TO ADD AN ITEM ON DISCUSSION AROUND FIRE DEPARTMENT EXPENDITURES. >> OKAY. SEE, THERE IS. WE ARE TALKING IN ITEM 13 ABOUT SCBA, BUT WE CAN MAYBE TACKLE IT ON. >> WE'LL TACKLE IT ON THERE. THAT WORKS FINE. >> ANYTHING ELSE? THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE CONSENT AGENDA. [Consent Agenda] THESE ARE ITEMS. JUST A SECOND. THESE ARE ITEMS THAT ARE CONSIDERED ROUTINE WOULD BE ENACTED BY ONE MOTION, WITH NO DISCUSSION, UNLESS A COUNCIL MEMBER OR STAFF REQUESTS THE ITEM TO BE REMOVED. WE ALSO TAKE REQUESTS FROM THE AUDIENCE AS WELL. THAT THOSE ITEMS BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR SEPARATE DISCUSSION AND ACTION. TONIGHT'S CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS ARE AS FOLLOWS. CITY COUNCIL MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING, CLAIMS AND BILLS, PARKS COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETINGS, SEPTEMBER SCHEDULED FOR SEPTEMBER 9TH, A DONATION FROM THE PELICAN POINT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. THAT'S RESOLUTION 7608, ESTABLISHING AND CLOSING CERTAIN FUNDS. MAINTENANCE QUOTE FOR VIDEO INSPECTION OF SANITARY SEWER SYSTEM, A MAINTENANCE QUOTE FOR TREE TRIMMING AND REMOVAL, AND A VARIANCE RESOLUTION 7613 FOR 1530 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE. ANYBODY LIKE TO MOVE ANY OF THOSE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS? >> I'D LIKE TO PULL NUMBER 7, PLEASE. >> NUMBER 7. ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE COUNCIL? >> I'D LIKE TO PULL NUMBER 8. >> NUMBER 8. >> ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE COUNCIL OR THE AUDIENCE OR STAFF? HEARING NONE, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEMS 1-6 ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. >> SURE. MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT. ITEMS 1-6. >> SECOND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? NOT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL OPPOSED, SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. WE WILL MOVE ON TO I GUESS WE'LL GO RIGHT TO ITEM 7. [Public Comments] WELL, WE NEED TO DO PUBLIC COMMENTS FIRST. I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL. COUNCIL WILL NOT ENGAGE IN ANY DISCUSSION OR TAKE ACTION ON ITEMS THAT ARE RAISED. HOWEVER, COUNCIL MAY REFER ITEMS TO STAFF FOR FOLLOW UP OR CONSIDERATION OF FUTURE MEETING. SPEAKERS SHOULD STATE THEIR NAME AND THEIR ADDRESS AT THE PODIUM BEFORE SPEAKING. COUNCIL WILL FIRST OPEN THE PODIUM TO CITY OF ORONO RESIDENTS BEFORE OPENING THE PODIUM DATING MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WISHING TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL. THE PODIUM IS YOURS, IF THERE ARE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT WISH TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL. >> J. NIGER, 1386 REST POINT ROAD, AND HE ALMOST SKIPPED RIGHT OVER ME, BUT I'M GLAD YOU REMEMBERED. ANYWAYS, I WENT TO A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING RECENTLY, AND THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL FOR ME. I HAVEN'T BEEN TO MANY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS SINCE I WAS ON THE COUNCIL OR I WAS ON A PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT AN ITEM WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, AND I JUST HAD TO GO SEE IF IT WAS TRUE. I THINK ABOUT IT AND YOU ALL KNOW YOUR LEADERS OF THE COMMUNITY IN A SORT, AND SO ARE THE COMMISSION MEMBERS. WHEN I WAS UP THERE, I ALWAYS FELT THAT THERE WAS AN OBLIGATION TO AT LEAST DO YOUR BEST TO BE ABOVE BOARD AND CLEAR AND TRANSPARENT AND ALL THAT. WHICH IS WHY WHEN I GOT MY VARIANCE IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL, I RECUSED MYSELF AND WHEN IT'S TIME TO TALK, I CAME DOWN HERE AND TALK, AND I LET THE COUNSEL DO IT. I THINK THERE'S A CERTAIN HONOR THAT GOES WITH BEING IN ALL YOUR POSITIONS. [00:05:06] I'M VERY FRUSTRATED THAT THERE'S A MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY THAT'S A LEADER OF ONE OF OUR COMMISSIONS THAT HAS BLATANTLY VIOLATED NUMEROUS THINGS OVER THE YEARS. I SAT THERE AT THAT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AND WATCHED TO MAKE EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE. WELL, I GOT TO LOOK AT MY NEIGHBOR'S DOCK EVERY MORNING. I DON'T KNOW WHERE PROPERTY LINES ARE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT FRUSTRATED ME BECAUSE IT BROUGHT ME BACK TO WHAT THE LAST ADMINISTRATION WAS ABOUT A LOT. I'M PRETTY SURE THIS PERSON WAS A PRETTY GOOD FRIEND OF THE LAST MAYOR, AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED LAST ADMINISTRATION. WE'RE GIVING AWAY RIGHT ALWAYS. WE'RE SELLING OUR TURNAROUNDS. IT WAS AN OLD BOYS CLUB, AND I THINK THIS GENTLEMAN MAY HAVE SOMEHOW THOUGHT, WELL, I'M A PART OF THE CLUB, SO I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT DEALING WITH THIS STUFF BECAUSE IT COMES UP. IT'S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL, BUT IT IS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE POTENTIALLY VIOLATING 6810 ORDINANCES AS A COMMUNITY LEADER, THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON. THERE'S A DISRESPECT FOR THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE, BECAUSE WHILE YOU'RE SITTING UP THERE, JUDGING OTHERS, THEIR PROJECTS AND THEIR THINGS, YOU'RE VIOLATING FOR YOURSELF WHAT'S GOING ON. I'M SPEAKING ABOUT PARK CHAIR, MR. ROTH, I THINK IT'S HOW YOU PRONOUNCE IT. WHAT'S GONE ON ON HIS PROPERTY, AND SO MANY THINGS HE SAID DID NOT RING TRUE THE OTHER NIGHT. I DON'T KNOW WHERE MY PROPERTY LINE IS. WELL, HE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY WITH A RETAINING WALL DOWN ON THE SHORE, AND EVEN THOUGH THAT THING MIGHT HAVE BEEN OFF A FOOT OR TWO. IT WAS STILL PRETTY OBVIOUS WHERE HIS PROPERTY LINE WAS. THIS GUY LITERALLY BUILT INTO HIS NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY WITH A PATIO WITH TWO SEPARATE ILLEGAL RETAINING WALLS. HE ADMITTEDLY LANDSCAPE THE YARD THAT CREATED ISSUES FOR EROSION THAT CAUSED HIM TO HAVE TO DO ALL OF THIS. THAT'S WHAT HE ADMITTED WHEN HE WAS THERE. THE QUESTION GETS DOWN TO, HOW MANY ORDINANCE DOES IT TAKE? HOW MANY VIOLATIONS, HOW MUCH DISRESPECT IS GOING ON. WHAT'S THE LIMIT? I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE IN A TOUGH POSITION OF ACTUALLY HAVING TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE, BUT I THINK IT'S TIME. I ALSO THINK IT'S A LITTLE TIME TO LOOK AT STAFF IN THIS. WHEN MY WIFE AND I WENT THROUGH WHAT WE WENT THROUGH WITH OUR DRIVEWAY. YOU ALL KNOW THE STORY. IT WENT STRAIGHT FROM THE NIGHT GUARDS ARE ARGUING TO CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. WE WEREN'T GIVEN ANY OF THESE STEPS IN BETWEEN TO RESOLVE THE SITUATION. STAFF SEEMS TO BE CAJOLING A VERY CLEAR VIOLATOR WHO COMPLETELY CLEARED HIS NATURAL FRONT YARD AND THEN CLEANED DRAINAGE ISSUES. I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH. YOU CAN LOOK UP ONLINE EASY ENOUGH. THERE ARE NATURAL WAYS TO RESTORE PROPERTIES. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE RETAINING WALLS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN MODERN THINGS, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY OF THAT BEING TALKED ABOUT. I WOULD THINK IN MY MIND, THAT'S WHAT STAFF WOULD BE PUSHING AT THIS POINT. YOU VIOLATED, IT'S NOT JUST ONE THING OR TWO THINGS. YOU'RE BUILDING ON YOUR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. WHEN IS THE CITY GOING TO STAND UP AND HOLD THIS CITY LEADER ACCOUNTABLE FOR DOING ALL OF THIS. IT'S SAD THAT I EVEN HAVE TO BE UP HERE BECAUSE THIS GENTLEMAN SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED BY NOW GIVEN WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT OBVIOUSLY, HE DOESN'T HAVE THE COURAGE TO DO THAT. I'M GOING TO ASK THIS COUNCIL, I GUESS, I'LL ASK HIM, MR. ROTH, PLEASE RESIGN. YOU'VE TAKEN OUR TRUST AWAY IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND IF HE DOESN'T HAVE THE COURAGE AND GUTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU GUYS, AND I KNOW IT'S HARD, BUT WE NEED TO RESTORE TRUST IN OUR LEADERS. THIS EGREGIOUS VIOLATION OF TRUST NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DO THAT. THANK YOU. >> YOU. ANYBODY ELSE FROM THE PUBLIC. SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 7, [7. Maintenance Quote - Tree Trimming and Removal] WHICH IS THE MAINTENANCE QUOTE TREE TRIMMING AND REMOVAL. >> YEAH, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THIS. IT'S LESS ABOUT THE QUOTE THAN IT IS ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT WE FOLLOW FOR RIGHT OF WAY REMOVAL, SUCH AS WHEN THERE ARE RESIDENT REQUESTS, WHICH THERE ARE IN OCCASION. HOW IS STAFF PRIORITIZING HOW THESE REQUESTS ARE HANDLED? I KNOW THIS IS LIKELY FOR A BULK OF TREES ALONG FERNDALE, WHICH WE RECEIVED AN EMAIL ABOUT WITH CONCERNS, BUT I'M ALSO WANTING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT IS THAT THE CITY IS PRIORITIZING ONE OFF REQUESTS WHEN IT COMES TO TREE REMOVAL. ARE YOU JUST TAKING THEM DOWN AS THEY COME IN, [00:10:04] OR ARE YOU ASSESSING THE NEED? >> LATELY, YES. THEY'VE HAD TO GO THROUGH A PRIORITIZE PRIORITIZATION PROCESS, BECAUSE AS FROM OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT THE TREE MANAGEMENT PLAN, WE HAVE MORE DEAD TREES IN OUR RIGHT OF WAY AND IN OUR PARKS THAN WE CAN HANDLE. THAT'S WHY WE CAME TO THE COUNCIL A FEW WEEKS OR A FEW MEETINGS AGO TO ASK FOR AN INCREASE TO THE OPERATING BUDGET SO WE COULD GO AFTER SOME OF THIS. IN GENERAL, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MOST HAZARDOUS TREES FIRST, AND SO ON. IN SOME CASES, MAKING A JUDGMENT CALL, WILL THAT DEAD TREE STAY STANDING LONGER THAN THIS OTHER DEAD TREE OVER HERE AND TRYING TO MAKE THOSE CALLS? IN SOME CASES, THOUGH, WE'RE ALSO IN THE CASE OF SOME OF THE THINGS WE HAVE THIS QUOTE FOR IS, WELL, THERE'S SOME ECONOMY OF SCALE, IF WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS PARTICULAR AREA AND GET ALL THESE AT THE SAME TIME. CONTRACTOR DOESN'T HAVE TO PICK UP, MOVE AND REPOSITION, AND YOU DON'T GET LITTLE BIT MORE EFFICIENT OPERATION. >> I'D IMAGINE THAT A LOT OF THE OTHER REQUESTS ARE NOT ECONOMY OF SCALE. MAYBE THEY'RE COMING ONE OVER HERE AND A COUPLE OVER THERE. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASSESS IS HOW ARE YOU GOING ABOUT? IS THERE JUST A LIST THAT YOU'RE WORKING OUT OF? ARE YOU GOING OUT AND ASSESSING THE HEALTH OF THE TREE? >> YEAH. IN GENERAL, WHAT HAPPENS FOR LIKE A RIGHT OF WAY, A CALL WILL COME INTO THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. THEN THE PUBLIC WORKS THE STREET SUPERVISOR WILL GO OUT AND DOUBLE CHECK WHATEVER THE CLAIM IS. PART OF THE CHALLENGE IN DOING RIGHT AWAY TREES IS ALSO, IS IT REALLY IN THE RIGHT OF WAY OR IS IT ON THE PERSON'S PROPERTY? GOING THROUGH THAT ANALYSIS OF FIRST, CLEARLY, IT'S IN THE CITY RIGHT OF WAY. THAT MAKES IT A CITY MAINTENANCE PROBLEM, THEN ASSESSING HOW DEBT OR DYING IS THE TREE OR THE LIMB OR WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH. THEN ALSO ASSESSING, IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN HANDLE WITH PUBLIC WORKS CREWS? IS IT SITTING WITHIN UTILITY LINES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHERE WE NEED TO TRY TO GET EITHER A CONTRACTOR INVOLVED OR SEE IF WE CAN CONVINCE EXCEL TO COME IN AND REMOVE THE TREE, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. >> ARE YOU EVER IN DISCUSSION WITH A RESIDENT WHERE YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO TAKE DOWN THE TREE? MAYBE IT'S UNSIGHTLY, BUT IT'S NOT IN DANGER OF FALLING, SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PRIORITIZE THAT FOR THE TIME BEING. DOES THAT HAPPEN? >> IT DOES. >> I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. >> THERE'S OBVIOUSLY, THE SUBJECTIVITY THERE AS THE STREET SUPERVISOR, PUBLIC WORK STAFF ARE LOOKING TREE. GENERALLY, IT IS LOOKING WHAT'S THE MOST HAZARDOUS THING AMONGST THE WORK THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW THAT WE CAN ADDRESS AND TRYING TO ADDRESS IT. >> WHEN DOES THIS PROJECT START? >> AS SOON AS THIS IS APPROVED, THEN THE CONTRACTOR WILL BE NOTIFIED THAT WE'RE READY TO GO. I BELIEVE DJ, THERE ARE A COUPLE A FEW WEEKS TO A MONTH OUT. >> WHEN BRENT, OUR STREET SUPERVISOR MET AND HAD THE CONTRACTOR COME OUT. THEY'RE LOOKING AT SOMETIME IN OCTOBER TO GET STARTED JUST WITH THEIR BACKLOG WEATHER PERMITS AND OTHER PROJECTS, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO MOVE THAT TIME LINE UP. IT'LL BE A LITTLE WHILE YET. >> APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY TREES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE FOR THIS PARTICULAR? >> IT'S IN EXCESS OF THREE DOZEN BETWEEN ALL THREE ADS. THERE'S QUITE A BIT ADAM WAS EXPLAINING ECONOMIES OF SCALE. YOU'LL SEE A BUNCH AND WE'RE NOT GOING IN AND CLEAR CUTTING. WE'RE TRYING TO BE SOMEWHAT SELECTIVE WHERE SOME OF THE CITIES HAVE GONE IN AND TAKEN A WHOLE ROAD, AND IT LOOKS LIKE A BOMB WENT OFF. WE'RE TRYING NOT TO DO THAT. THERE'S GOING TO BE A FEW TREES THAT WE'RE GOING TO JUST TRIM AND TRY TO GET A FEW MORE YEARS OUT OF THEM. THEY'RE STARTING TO DIE. WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT SHIFT THAT MONEY SOMEWHERE ELSE AND THEN COME BACK TO THAT ONE LATER ON, BECAUSE THERE IS STILL SOME GREENERY IN IT, BUT THIS IS JUST THE FIRST ROUND OF EXTENSIVE TREES THAT WE'RE DOING THIS WAY. THEN GET CALLS LATE LAST WEEK AGAIN. ON SOME MORE, SO THIS IS AS WE EXPLAINED, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW. IT'S A CONSTANT EVALUATION PROCESS BECAUSE THAT CANOPY IS STILL DYING BACK, AND WE'LL SEE MORE OF IT NEXT SPRING. UNFORTUNATELY. >> WOULD THERE BE A PLAN TO DO ANYTHING OVER THE WINTER AS WELL? >> WE'LL REASSESS AND THEN DEPEND UPON HOW MUCH SNOW WE GET OVER THE WINTERTIME. [00:15:02] SOME OF THAT WE CAN DO OURSELVES. THEN THAT AUGMENTS WHAT WE'RE DOING WHEN WE'RE NOT DOING SNOW REMOVAL. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS PROPOSED RESOLUTION? >> SURE. A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE TREE MAINTENANCE, A QUOTE FROM CJS SERVICES FOR 21,429. I'LL SECOND IT. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL THOSE OPPOSED. SAME TIME. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ITEM NUMBER 8, WHICH IS A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR 1530 ORCHARD BEACH PLACE. LAURA? [8. LA25-000025, 1530 Orchard Beach Place, Variance - Resolution 7613] >> ONE SECOND, COUNSEL. HERE WHAT I PULL UP. YOU'LL GET IMAGE THAT WILL HELP. IN FRONT OF YOU TONIGHT IS A DRAFT DENIAL RESOLUTION FOR LA 25-25-1350 ONO BEACH PLACE. ON AUGUST 11, THE COUNCIL VOTED FOUR TO ZERO TO DENY THE AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK VARIANCE REQUEST. A RESOLUTION HAS BEEN DRAFTED INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET TONIGHT. THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED ADDITIONAL TESTIMONY REGARDING THAT PROPOSED VARIANCE REQUEST. IT WAS ATTACHED AS EXHIBIT B AND EMAILED TO YOU DIRECTLY AS WELL. THE APPLICANTS PROPOSING AN ACCESSORY BUILDING OR A POOL CABANA LAKE YARD OF THE AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK, WHERE PERMITTED PATIO AND POOL ARE CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION. AS THE PROPERTY IS ADJACENT TO THE RIGHT OF WAY, THE AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK IS SET AT 129 FEET MEASURED DISTANCE FROM THE ORDINARY HIGH WATER LINE. THIS APPLICATION DID GO TO PLANNING IN JULY, AND THEN, LIKE I STATED, YOU GUYS REVIEWED IT ON THE APRIL 11 COUNCIL MEETING. TO MEETING PACKETS NOTES WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET. I'D BE HAPPY TO WALK THROUGH ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE, BUT I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE TONIGHT AND BE HAPPY TO SPEAK AS WELL. >> ANY QUESTIONS FOR MISS OKON? >> YES A QUESTION. I WENT OUT THERE AND TOOK A LOOK AT THIS, AND I KNOW THAT WE VOTED 4-0 TO DENY THIS VARIANCE REQUEST, AND I KNOW WE HAVE GOTTEN ADDITIONAL COMMUNICATION ON THIS SINCE THEN, AND I ALSO KNOW THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION ACTUALLY APPROVED THIS VARIANCE WITH A MINOR CHANGE TO THE DISTANCE BETWEEN BUILDINGS. AFTER I WENT OUT THERE AND TOOK A LOOK AT THIS PROPERTY, IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT, BOTH NEIGHBORS WOULD LITERALLY HAVE TO LOOK BACKWARDS TO SEE THIS BUILDING, THIS CABANA. IT GAVE ME SOME CAUSE ON WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD REVISIT THIS PARTICULAR DENIAL OF THIS VARIANCE BASED UPON THE SITUATION THAT I OBSERVED AND HAS BEEN POINTED OUT. WHEN YOU GO DOWN THE ROAD AND YOU GO PAST THEIR DRIVEWAY AND DOWN THE ROAD TO WHERE THE WORK IS BEING DONE IN BACK, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO ME TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE NEIGHBORS, WHATEVER HAVE TO TO LOOK AT IN ORDER TO HAVE A LAKE VIEW. I JUST WONDER IF WE'RE NOT LOOKING DEEP ENOUGH INTO THIS POSSIBILITY OF GIVING A VARIANCE BECAUSE OF THIS PARTICULAR ORIENTATION ON THIS PROPERTY. I'M NOT SURE HOW MY COUNCIL MEMBERS FEEL, BUT IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK DIFFERENTLY, MAYBE SIMILAR TO HOW OTHER CITIES WOULD CONSIDER THIS? WHERE WOULD THIS PROPERTY FALL IN THAT CASE? >> I THINK THAT'S A LOADED QUESTION. A LOT OF DIFFERENT CITIES HANDLE SIGHTLINE SETBACKS DIFFERENTLY. SOME CITIES AROUND THE LAKE DON'T HAVE AN ORDINANCE AT ALL. SOME CITIES HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF MEASURING IT, AND THAT DISCUSSION OR THAT INFORMATION COULD BE PRESENTED BETTER IN LIKE A WORK SESSION OR THROUGH A DISCUSSION IF WE WERE CONSIDERING A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE IN THAT ORDINANCE OR CHANGING THAT ORDINANCE. >> TO ME, I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT GIVING VARIANCES SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS WELL THOUGHT OUT AND REALLY BE CRITICAL VARIANCES. BUT AS I WENT DOWN TO THIS PROPERTY AND NOTICED THE HOUSES THAT WERE NEXT DOOR TO THIS PROPERTY, IT STRUCK ME THAT WE'RE DENYING A VARIANCE FOR SOMETHING THAT THE NEIGHBORS ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS PARTICULAR HOME WOULD LITERALLY HAVE TO LOOK BACKWARDS AT TO SEE. >> LAURA, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS AN ACCESSORY BUILDING? IT'S NOT THE PRIMARY BUILDING? [00:20:02] >> SURE. WHEN EVALUATING THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY CRITERIA, WE WEIGH OUR CONSIDERATIONS ALONG THOSE, I THINK IT'S LIKE 12 DIFFERENT CRITERIA. BASED ON THAT ANALYSIS AND THAT FINDING, STAFF NOTED THAT THERE ARE OTHER PORTIONS OF THE APPLICANT'S PROPERTY THAT THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY BUILDING COULD BE BUILT ON THAT'S CONFORMING TO THE AVERAGE LAKE SETBACK. UNFORTUNATELY, IT JUST WOULDN'T BE IN A RELATIONSHIP TO THE POOL, BUT THERE'S OTHER PORTIONS WHERE THEY COULD HAVE AN ACCESSORY BUILDING ON THE PROPERTY. I'M ALSO NOTED IS THE PROPERTY HAS REASONABLE USE FOR THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURE OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, WHICH IS THE INTENT OF THE ZONING DISTRICT IS TO FACILITATE A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USE. THE MAIN HOUSE MEETS THAT AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK STANDARD. THE IDEA, LET'S SEE HERE, THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT AN ACCESSORY BUILDING, SHOULD BE IN A PROPOSED LOCATION THAT MEETS ZONING ORDINANCES. HAVING AN ACCESSORY BUILDING IS JUST ACCESSORY TO THE PRINCIPAL USE, AND THEY HAVE REASONABLE USE BY OPERATING THE PRINCIPAL STRUCTURES. THAT'S REALLY WHERE STAFF WAS DOING OUR ANALYSIS WITH THE PRACTICAL DIFFICULTIES. THAT BEING SAID, PLANNING COMMISSION DID DISCUSS OTHER ELEMENTS LIKE YOU'RE NOTING REGARDING THE SIGHTLINE IMPACTS AND SUCH. THERE IS DISCUSSION TO BE HAD OR THAT YOU GUYS HAD AT THE LAST MEETING, AND WE CAN DEFINITELY HAVE AGAIN TONIGHT. >> DID THEY PROPOSE ANY ALTERNATIVE LOCATIONS FOR THIS? DID IT LITERALLY MOVE IT IN FRONT OF THE HOME? >> WHEN THIS WENT TO PLANNING COMMISSION, THE CITY CODE REQUIRES A 10 FOOT SEPARATION BETWEEN BUILDINGS. WHEN IT WENT TO PLANNING COMMISSION, THE PROPOSED POOL CABANA WAS NOT MEETING THAT 10 FOOT SEPARATION. BEFORE IT CAME TO COUNCIL IN AUGUST, THEY DID AMEND THE LOCATION TO MEET THE 10 FOOT SETBACK TO ALLEVIATE THAT VARIANCE REQUEST. THEY DID OFFER OR THEY DID AMEND THEIR CODE, AMEND THE BUILDING LOCATION TO THAT DEGREE, BUT THEY DIDN'T PROPOSE IT IN A DIFFERENT SPOT ON THE SITE, A DIFFERENT YARD. >> I GUESS I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP AND HAVE CONVERSATION ABOUT IT BECAUSE AS I LOOK AT THIS, AND AGAIN, I KNOW THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO CRITICALLY LOOK AT OFFERING VARIANCES. WHEN I WENT OUT AND TOOK A PEEK AT THIS, IT SEEMED TO ME TO BE SOMETHING AND I THINK WE RECEIVED A LETTER THAT SUPPORTED THIS PARTICULAR VARIANCE REQUEST AS WELL FROM A NEIGHBORING HOME. IT JUST SEEMED TO ME LIKE WE SHOULD BE INTENTIONAL ALSO TRYING TO HELP RESIDENTS WITH ACHIEVING WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE, WHETHER IT'S WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT OR WHATEVER. I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT UP AND HAVE JUST SOME ADDITIONAL DIALOGUE ON IT. >> WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OF HAVING THE PROPOSED SUCCESS REBUILDING PUSH BACK CLOSER TO WHERE THE POOL EQUIPMENT IS? IS THAT A POSSIBILITY? OR WOULD THAT GOING TO CREATE MORE HARD COVER? >> LIKE, CLOSER, UP IN HERE. YOU COULD ASK THE APPLICANT. THEY DO HAVE A SIDE YARD SETBACK IN THIS AREA, THAT THEY'VE PUSHED THE BUILDING ALL THE WAY AGAINST THE SIDE YARD SETBACK. PUTTING IT BACK IN HERE, IF THEY WANTED TO DO A HOME ADDITION, THERE'S THAT IS SOMETHING WE'D LOOK AT DIFFERENTLY, BUT BECAUSE IT'S AN ACCESSORY BUILDING, THEY'D HAVE TO MEET THE 10 FOOT SEPARATION, AND THEN THEY'D HAVE A SIDE YARD SETBACK, WHICH WOULD MAKE THIS A RATHER SMALL BUILDING ENVELOPE IN THE SPECIFIC CORNER. >> OKAY. >> WOULD THEY HAVE CONSIDERED THAT, DO YOU KNOW? >> I THINK THAT'D BE A GOOD QUESTION FOR MAYBE THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE. YEAH. >> WHY DON'T YOU TAKE TAKE THE PODIUM, PLEASE. >> GOOD EVENING. TIM KELLY. I'M AN ATTORNEY FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER. I BELIEVE THIS LOCATION WAS DISCUSSED AT YOUR LAST MEETING WHEN THE ARCHITECT WAS HERE, AND THAT WHERE THEY'VE PLACED THIS WAS INTENTIONAL TO MINIMIZE ANY POSSIBLE IMPACT ON THE LAKE VIEWS, AND THAT MOVING IT AROUND WOULD EITHER REQUIRE THE 10 FOOT VARIANCE FROM THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE OR A VARIANCE FROM THE SETBACK. THIS REALLY IS THE BEST AND ONLY LOCATION IN THE LAKE YARD FOR THE SUCCESS REBUILDING. THEY'VE BEEN INTENTIONAL ABOUT WHERE THEY'VE LOCATED. >> WHAT DOES THE ACCESSORY BUILDING PROVIDE THE HOME OWNER THAT THEIR PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE DOES NOT? [00:25:04] >> IT'S A POOL CABANA, SO FOR I THINK EVERYONE CAN IMAGINE HOW A POOL CABANA IS USED. IT'S A PLACE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE TO GO IN. I THINK IT HELPS WHEN PEOPLE ARE WET VERSUS GOING INTO A RESIDENCE STORE STUFF FOR POOL USES IN A PLACE TO HANG OUT THAT'S ENCLOSED IN THE POOL AREA. >> IS THERE RUNNING WATER CONNECTED BATHROOM OR ANYTHING? >> I DON'T BELIEVE SO. >> AT THIS TIME, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE PROPOSING A FIREPLACE, BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING INDICATING ANY PLUMBING. MOSTLY CITY. >> IF I MAY BRIEFLY ADDRESS SOME OTHER POINTS. I BE OKAY? >> ALL RIGHT. >> I THINK I MISPRONOUNCE YOUR NAME, COUNCILMAN. >> PERSIAN, PLEASURE. >> THANK YOU. EVALUATING VARIANCES, THE COMMON SENSE RESULT IS THE CORRECT ONE. CITY STAFF, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE COUNCIL REALLY AGREED ON TWO FACTS. ONE, THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THIS SETBACK ORDINANCE IS TO PROTECT LAKE VIEWS FROM ADJACENT HOMES ON LAKESHORE LOTS. TWO, THAT THIS VARIANCE IF GRANTED WILL HAVE NO IMPACT ON ANYONE'S LAKE VIEW. VARIANCES WHILE YOU HAVE TO BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT THEM, DO GIVE THE COUNCIL THE ABILITY TO ALLOW SOMEONE, OBVIOUSLY TO VARY FROM AN ORDINANCE REQUIREMENT AND NOT HAVE THE STRICT ENFORCEMENT. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE HAVING HERE IS THE STRICT ENFORCEMENT TRUMPING THE ABILITY TO GRANT THE VARIANCE. WITH RESPECT TO REASONABLE USE, THE VARIANCE STANDARD IS NOT THAT THE OWNER HAS TO COME HERE THIS EVENING IN SHORE. I CAN'T HAVE ANY REASONABLE USE OF MY PROPERTY WITHOUT THIS VARIANCE. I'M PROPOSING A REASONABLE USE THAT IS NOT PERMITTED BY A ZONING ORDINANCE. YOUR CODE WOULD ALLOW A POOL CABANA AS AN ACCESSORY BUILDING IN THIS LOCATION, BUT FOR THE SETBACK ORDINANCE. BUT I THINK HOW THE REASONABLE STANDARDS BEING APPLIED IS THAT YOU'RE BEING ADVISED THAT, BECAUSE THERE'S A PRIMARY RESIDENCE HERE, YOU CAN NEVER GET A VARIANCE BECAUSE YOU HAVE REASONABLE USE OF YOUR PROPERTY. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S ACCURATE. THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES HERE, AGAIN, IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO BE A ONE OF A KIND, UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE. IT JUST HAS TO BE A SITUATION THAT'S NOT REFLECTIVE OF CONDITIONS GENERAL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION AT THE LAST MEETING ABOUT, WELL, THIS IS NOT THE ONLY PROPERTY THAT IS ADJACENT TO RIGHT OF WAYS. IT MAY BE TRUE THAT THERE'S OTHER PROPERTIES THAT ARE ADJACENT TO RIGHT OF WAYS, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 53 OF YOUR PACKET, THERE'S A GIS MAP OF THIS PROPERTY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT CONDITIONS GENERAL IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD INCLUDE ABUTTING A RIGHT OF WAY. ABUTTING THE RIGHT AWAY IS NOT THE ONLY UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE HERE. IT'S THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY TO THE WEST OF THE RIGHT AWAY IS APPROXIMATELY 30 TO 40 FEET FROM THE LAKESHORE. THE OWNER'S LAKESHORE THE SHAPE OR FORM IS UNIQUE, WHICH REALLY INCREASES THE IMPACT OF THE SETBACK BASED ON THE EASTERN PROPERTY. AS COUNCILMAN PERSIAN STATED, I MEAN, YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO TURN AWAY FROM THE LAKE VIEW TO SEE THIS POOL CABANA. IF THIS IS NOT A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE YOU CAN SAY, YEAH, THIS MAKES SENSE TO GIVE A VARIANCE. YOU'RE NOT GRANTING A VARIANCE FROM THE AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK THAT WILL IMPACT SOMEONE'S LAKE VIEW. WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT. I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PURPOSE IN GENERAL INTENT, WHICH IS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT YOU MUST APPLY, THIS VARIANCE IS IN HARMONY WITH THE PURPOSE OF A SETBACK REQUIREMENT. IT'S REASONABLE TO PROPOSE A POOL CABANA IN THE SAME YARD AS THE POOL. [00:30:01] IT'S UNREASONABLE TO SAY, PUT THE POOL CABANA IN THE FRONT YARD. IT'S A USE THAT'S ALLOWED, BUT FOR THE SETBACK VARIANCE. THIS IS THE EXACT TYPE OF SITUATION OR CIRCUMSTANCE IS PROBABLY THE BETTER WORD THAT JUSTIFIES A VARIANCE. I'D BE HAPPY TO ADDRESS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. BUT I DID SUBMIT MY LETTER THURSDAY, SO I ASSUME EVERYONE WOULD APPRECIATE IF I DON'T REPEAT EVERY POINT RAISED IN THAT LETTER. >> IS THE ARCHITECT HERE? >> HE IS NOT. HE COULDN'T MAKE IT THIS EVENING. WE SUBMITTED A LETTER ON THURSDAY AND GIVEN SCHEDULES. I'M HAVING A TOUGH TIME GETTING OVER THE VARIOUS CRITERION NOT BEING MET FOR A VARIANCE THAT THE STAFF CONCLUDED, AND I GENERALLY AGREE WITH. >> IS THERE A SPECIFIC CRITERION YOU'RE STRUGGLING WITH? IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH ME ASKING. >> TOTALITY OF THEM, I THINK. IT'S RIGHT ON DOWN THE LINE. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE SITE LINE ISSUE, AND THAT IT DOESN'T IMPACT NEIGHBORS SIDELINES. BUT I'M STRUGGLING WITH SOME OF THE OTHER CRITERIA. LET ME JUST HAVE A LOOK THROUGH THAT. >> I THINK FOR MYSELF, IF THEY HAD TRIED TO REPOSITION THE BUILDING, I UNDERSTAND THEY WANT IT NEAR THE POOL. I UNDERSTAND WANTING THE POOL VAN IN THE POOL AREA. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE IF THEY COULD HAVE REPOSITIONED IT. I KNOW LAURA, YOU SAID THAT THEY'RE GOING TO RUN INTO THE SIDE VARIANCES AND STUFF, BUT EVEN PUSHING IT BACK AND I GUESS TURNING THE BUILDING AND HAVING THE FIREPLACE, I GUESS FACE THE POOL EQUIPMENT SO THAT WE BLOCK THAT AND THEN HAVE THE OPEN PART TOWARDS THE POOL AND STUFF. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT WE WOULDN'T BE HITTING ALL THE VARIANCES AS MUCH. RIGHT NOW, THE WHOLE THINGS BEYOND THE LINE. THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING FOR THE ARCHITECT. >> THERE'S NOT A LOCATION WHERE YOU COULD PUT THIS POLKA BAN ON THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE A VARIANCE. THEY RESPONDED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S COMMENT REGARDING THE 10 FOOT. THIS AS ARCHITECT, I BELIEVE, EXPLAINED THAT DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING, WAS LOCATED SPECIFICALLY HERE TO MAKE SURE THE IMPACT ON LAKE VIEWS WERE ELIMINATED. RESPECTFULLY, I THINK THIS LOCATION VERSUS MOVING IT A FEW FEET ALONG WAY, I DON'T THINK WOULD CHANGE THE NEED FOR THE VARIANCE REQUEST FROM THE AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK. >> I GUESS TO ME, IT WOULD HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH US AS MUCH AS WE WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH THEM. OTHERWISE, I HAVE TO SAY THAT, I'D HAVE TO GO WITH AGREEING WITH THE CITY. I KNOW WE HAVE VARIANCES IN PLACE FOR CERTAIN REASONS, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN LETTERS AND SAYING THEY CAN'T SEE IT, AND YOU DO HAVE TO TURN AROUND TO LOOK AT IT. BUT THE VARIANCES ARE THERE FOR A REASON. >> THE VARIANCES ARE THERE FOR A REASON TO ADDRESS A SITUATION LIKE THIS. JUST THE FEEDBACK THAT GOT WAS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THAT WAS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO CONSIDER YOUR VARIANCE FROM THE AVERAGE LAKESHORE SETBACK UNLESS YOU MOVE THIS THREE FEET AWAY TO THE TOOL 10 FEET AWAY. THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY IN RESPONDING TO FEEDBACK. THERE HASN'T BEEN ASIDE FROM THE STAFF REPORT RECOMMENDING A DENIAL. THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY FEEDBACK, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, ASIDE FROM GETTING THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S FEEDBACK TO SAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU THE VARIANCE FROM THE 10 FEET. WE'LL GIVE YOU THE VARIANCE FROM THE LAKESHORE SETBACK IF YOU ADDRESS OUR CONCERNS. I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY AND THE FEEDBACK THEY HAVE RECEIVED. >> I THINK IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND STAFF ARE IN ALIGNMENT ON EVERY VARIANCE. IN THIS CASE, THEY HAPPEN TO NOT BE, AND I'M AS WELL IN AGREEMENT THAT I'M GOING TO FOLLOW STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, AS I SAID AT THE FIRST MEETING, AND I DO FIND THAT THERE'S REASONABLE USE OF THE PROPERTY WITH THE HARD SCAPE AND THE POOL THAT'S BEEN CREATED. THE CABANA IS A PROPOSED ACCESSORY BUILDING THAT IT'S [00:35:01] DIFFICULT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE PROPERTY CANNOT BE REASONABLY ENJOYED WITHOUT THAT STRUCTURE INCLUDED. I'M JUST STATING WHERE I'M COMING FROM ON THIS, WHICH IS THAT I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH STAFF'S ANALYSIS. >> I JUST DISAGREE WITH THAT HOW THE REASONABLE STANDARD APPLIES. IT'S NOT THAT YOU HAVE A PRIMARY RESIDENCE, SO YOU CAN'T HAVE AN ACCESSORY BUILDING VARIANCE. >> WELL, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT BECOMES A NICE TO HAVE. IT'S NOT REALLY NEEDED TO ENJOY THE PROPERTY, AND I KNOW THAT MAY NOT BE ONE OF THE CRITERIA, BUT JUST A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I'M LOOKING AT. >> BUT YOU ASK APPLICANTS TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION, DEMONSTRATE YOU MEET THE CRITERIA. THERE'S NO VARIANCE STANDARD THAT SAYS, YOU CAN'T GET A VARIANCE FOR SOMETHING YOU WANT VERSUS SOMETHING YOU NEED. >> UNDERSTOOD. >> I THINK YOU'RE APPLYING A STANDARD THAT DOESN'T APPLY. >> UNDERSTOOD. BUT YOU'RE SAYING FROM A COMMON SENSE STANDPOINT, THIS SHOULD BE ALLOWED. A COMMON SENSE STANDPOINT, IT'S NOT A NEEDED ACCESSORY TO CREATE THE FULL ENJOYMENT OF THAT PROPERTY. IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE, BUT IT'S NOT A NEEDED TO HAVE. I THINK THAT WHETHER IT'S PART OF THE CRITERION OR NOT, FROM A COMMON SENSE STANDPOINT, I VIEW THAT AS RELEVANT, AND IN TERMS OF BEING ASKED TO GRANT THE VARIANCE. THAT DOESN'T OTHERWISE, ACCORDING TO OUR STAFF, COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE CRITERION THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO APPLY TO THIS. >> I THINK YOU'RE APPLYING A CRITERIA THAT'S NOT IN THE ORGANS AND NOT REQUIRED BY THE STATUTE. WE UNDERSTOOD. >> NO, IF I COULD ADD IT TO SOMETHING. I'D JUST SIMPLY SAY I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE ABOUT THE STANDARDS AND STUFF. I THINK THAT WAS A RESPONSE TO THE LET'S APPLY COMMON SENSE, WHICH ALSO ISN'T ONE OF THE CRITERIA. THE STAFF HAS PUT TOGETHER A REPORT WITH THE REQUIRED CRITERIA AND PROVIDED YOU WITH THE ANALYSIS. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S ROOM TO DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT THE STATED CRITERIA THAT THIS COUNCIL MUST CONSIDER ARE IN THE STAFF REPORT FOR YOU TONIGHT WITH THE EXPLANATION WHY AND THEIR ANALYSIS. AGAIN, DISAGREE WITH IT, BUT THAT'S THE STATED REASONS FOR THE DENIAL. CORRECT. >> OTHER QUESTIONS? >> NO. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THIS. I THINK LOOKING AT THAT, I THINK IT'S A REASONABLE USE. I THINK WE HAVE THIS TOOL OF VARIANCE. IT'S, YOU'VE GOT THAT RIGHT AWAY THAT THEY DIDN'T CAUSE THAT UNIQUENESS. IT'S PART OF THAT. I'D AGREE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT STAFF IS COMING FROM. I JUST LOOK AT IT FROM A STANDPOINT OF AS A HOMEOWNER, LOOKING AT THAT GOING, I'M NOT CREATING ANYTHING THAT'S DIFFERENT. THAT'S IMPEACHING. THE IMPEDING ON ANY OF MY NEIGHBORS. I THINK IT'S A REASONABLE USE, AND I PERSONALLY WOULD GRANT THAT. LOOKING AT THAT, AND I'VE BEEN TO THAT SITE, AND I THOUGHT YOU PUT TOGETHER A GOOD LETTER, TOO. IN REGARDS TO THAT AND LOOKING AT THE UNIQUENESS OF THE SITUATION, AS WELL AS APPLYING THAT. THAT'S WHERE I FALL ON. >> YOUR THOUGHTS, QUESTION. >> NO. >> I WANT TO MAKE A MOTION. ARE ANYTHING FURTHER YOU'D LIKE TO SAY, I GUESS, I SHOULD ASK THAT FIRST. >> WELL, TRYING TO READ THE ROOM. IF THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY TO COUNCIL MEMBER, EXCUSE ME, RECKS, THAT YOU'D WANT THE APPLICANT TO SUBMIT, WE'D APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. WE DID THINK WE WERE RESPONSIVE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT I CAN APPRECIATE THAT THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT ADDRESSED MORE SPECIFICALLY. I KNOW THERE'S STILL TIME ON THE 60 DAY DEADLINE. WE'D BE HAPPY TO DO THAT, BUT OBVIOUSLY, OUR HOPE HERE TONIGHT IS THAT YOU VOTE TO RECONSIDER THE REQUEST AND GRANT THE VARIANCE. >> I GUESS FOR MYSELF, AND I'M ONLY ONE COUNCIL MEMBER. TO ME, IF THE BUILDING WAS TURNED AND THE FIREPLACE WAS PUSHED FARTHER BACK TOWARDS THE POOL EQUIPMENT. YES, WE'RE STILL GOING TO BE HAVING TO SEEK A VARIANCE, BUT I THINK IT WOULD SHOW THAT THEY WERE MOVING THE BUILDING AS CLOSE AS THEY COULD [00:40:05] AWAY FROM THE LAKE AND AWAY FROM THE OTHER NEIGHBORS AND TRYING TO KEEP THE SETBACKS AS FAR BACK AS THEY. BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I'M ONE PERSON ON COUNCIL OF FIVE. I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN THAT IF THEY WALKED IN TONIGHT AND YOU HAD ALONG WITH YOUR LETTER. >> YES, I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO ADDRESS, IF I WOULD HAVE KNOWN, OBVIOUSLY. >> THANK YOU. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S TIME LEFT, SO WE COULD TABLE THIS IF YOU'D PREFER TO GET FOR YOUR INFORMATION. >> LAURA, WHEN YOU EXTENDED IT. CAN YOU REMIND ME WHEN THE EXTENSION WAS TILL? >> THE APPLICATION DEADLINE WAS EXTENDED TO MEET THE 120 DAYS TOTAL, WHICH WOULD EXPIRE OCTOBER 18. >> AS LONG AS THE COUNCIL ACTS BEFORE OCTOBER 18, WITH KEEPING IN MIND IF YOU ARE GOING TO DENY IT THE DENIAL IN WRITING NEEDS TO HAPPEN BEFORE THAT TIMELINE? >> I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE TABLE, THIS PARTICULAR DENIAL AND ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO COME BACK WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND PRESENT TO A COUNCIL AND A POTENTIAL PLANNING COMMISSION AS WELL. >> I'LL SECOND THAT. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. I'M NOT GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF KICKING THINGS DOWN THE ROAD, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT MOTION. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL THOSE OPPOSED. SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES IT'S TABLED. >> THANK YOU. >> ITEM 9. HOLIDAY TREE LIGHTING EVENT CANCELLATION IS THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA. [9. Holiday Tree Lighting Event Cancellation] >> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. AT LAST COUNCIL MEETING DURING MAYOR COUNCIL REPORT, THE COUNCIL INDICATED A DESIRE TO CANCEL THIS YEAR'S HOLIDAY TREE LIGHTING PARTY, SO BRINGING FORWARD THIS COUNCIL ACTION TO FORMALIZE THAT DIRECTION. >> I WOULDN'T CARE TO COMMENT. WE DID HAVE THIS. THIS WAS BROUGHT UP AT OUR LAST MEETING. I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WERE THERE, MR. SCHLINGER. >> I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GREAT FOR THE COMMUNITY. I LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS. IT'S NOT THIS YEAR, BUILD ON WHAT HAS BEEN GONE AND WHERE WE GO WITH IT. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS, BUT, ALL THE COMMUNITIES AROUND US DO IT, AND I THINK IT'S ALWAYS A GREAT THING. IT TAKES A WHILE TO BUILD MOMENTUM ON THESE THINGS, TOO. NECESSARILY HAVING IT AT THE GOLF COURSE IS AT THE RIGHT PLACE, GIVEN A NEIGHBORHOOD AND, ALL RESIDENTIAL AROUND THERE MIGHT NOT BE THE RIGHT PLACE, BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT THING FOR THE COMMUNITY. >> I THINK I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LISTENED TO OUR COMMENTARY FROM THE LAST MEETING, BUT I THINK ALL OF US ARE IN FAVOR OF TAKING A GOOD HARD LOOK AT HAVING MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, NOT LESS. >> I DID LISTEN. >> BUT I DO BELIEVE IT'S MAYBE SOMETHING WE SHOULD TAKE A YEAR BREAK ON AND REALLY BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT IT, AND MAYBE, IF IT IS THIS EVENT, WHICH I'M NOT CERTAINLY NOT RULING OUT. I'VE BEEN TO IT BEFORE. IT'S A FUN EVENT. IT IS VERY SUBJECT TO WEATHER THAT TIME OF YEAR. THE LOCATION IS SUBOPTIMAL GIVEN THE PARKING SITUATION AND WHATNOT. BUT I'D LIKE TO STUDY THIS AND COME UP WITH WAYS THAT WE CAN ENGAGE AS A COMMUNITY IN A COMMUNITY WIDE EVENT. THAT'S WHY I WOULD SUPPORT PUTTING IT ON HOLD FOR THIS YEAR, BUT HAPPY TO HEAR OTHER THOUGHTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE. >> I'M IN AGREEMENT. WE HAD A BRIEF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE LAST MEETING, AS YOU SAY, AND I THINK WE ALL SUPPORT ENGAGEMENT, AND I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE YEAR IN DIFFERENT WAYS FOR ENGAGEMENT. IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THAT WE PUT ALL OUR EFFORTS INTO ONE EVENT. IT IS TRUE THAT SOME OTHER CITIES HAVE HOLIDAY TYPE THEME THINGS, AND THERE'S ALSO CITIES THAT DO SPRING EVENTS. I THINK IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION, AS YOU SAY RESEARCH ON WITH THE PARK COMMISSION OR STAFF. BUT FOR THIS YEAR, IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH CANCELING OFFICIALLY. >> IT'S POSSIBLE. >> YEP. TAKE A PAUSE. WITH THAT, I CAN MAKE A MOTION TO CANCEL THE 2025 HOLIDAY TREE LIGHTING EVENT. >> I'LL SECOND THAT. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? AGAIN, I DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A WE'RE KILLING THIS. WE ARE TRYING TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT HOW WE ENGAGE WITH THE COMMUNITY AND PROVIDE GOOD OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT. [00:45:05] I'D LIKE TO SEE US MOVE AHEAD WITH SOME PLANNING FOR NEXT YEAR FOR EVENT. >> ABSOLUTELY BE NICE TO HAVE A CITY EVENT. THAT'S IMPORTANT. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO CANCEL IT FOR THIS YEAR. SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL THOSE OPPOSED. SAME SIGNED. MOTION CARRIES. WE'RE STICKING WITH THE GOLF COURSE HERE AND TALKING ABOUT AN ALCOHOL VIOLATION THERE. [10. Alcohol Sales - Compliance Review] >> MR. MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS. I'M JUST BRINGING TO YOUR ATTENTION ON ALCOHOL COMPLIANCE VIOLATION THAT WE DID HAVE AT THE GOLF COURSE. I THINK IT WAS IN THE REPORT. ONE OF THE STAFF WAS CITED FOR SELLING ALCOHOL TO SOMEONE UNDER THE AGE. THEY ARE CURRENTLY GOING THROUGH THEIR PROCESS PERSONALLY THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM. THIS IS MORE OUR INTERNAL FINE FOR THE VIOLATION, AND THEN OUR RESPONSE TO IT. ALL THE GOLF CLUBHOUSE MEMBERS DO GO THROUGH TRAINING ON HOW TO SELL THE ALCOHOL. THE PARTICULAR PERSON WHO DID THE VIOLATION IS ALSO A FORMER MAYOR WHO RAN A CITY LIQUOR STORE. HE WAS VERY AWARE OF THE RESTRICTIONS ON THAT. BUT WE REVISITED OUR TRAINING ON THAT. WE IMPLEMENTED USE OF A CARD READER THAT WAS NOT FUNCTIONING AT THE TIME, WHICH IT GOT WORKING AGAIN. PART OF THE FINE, WE'LL BE USING THAT MONEY TOWARDS A DIFFERENT READER THAT'S ATTACHED TO THE SQUARE THAT THEY USE FOR PAYMENTS, THAT SHOULD ALSO HELP TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE. I DO KNOW KIM, OUR GOLF COURSE ATTENDAN, WENT OVER EVERYTHING WITH THEM AS SHE HAD IN THE PAST AND HAS CONSTRUCTED, WHAT I WOULD SAY, A HILARIOUSLY LARGE POSTER SHOWING WHAT A UNDERAGE ID LOOKS LIKE AND WHAT IT DOESN'T WITH INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT. IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DEFINITELY TAKE REALLY SERIOUSLY AND GOING INTO IN THE FUTURE. DON'T WANT THIS TO HAPPEN EVER AGAIN. I KNOW THIS IS A VIOLATION THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST, AND THAT'S WHY THE FINE THAT WE ARE UP TO, AND WE'LL BE ADMINISTERING A THREE-DAY WHERE WE WILL SUSPENSION OF OUR ALCOHOL SALES, WHICH WE'LL BE DOING DURING REGULAR BUSINESS HOURS ON A DAY THAT WE ARE OPEN, NOT WHEN THE GOLF COURSE IS CLOSED. WE ARE MAKING SURE IT DOESN'T AFFECT PEOPLE IN LEAGUES OR WHO HAVE A SPECIAL TOURNAMENT THAT WAS THERE. IT DOESN'T HURT THEM. IT HURTS JUST US ON OUR SALES. I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. >> I ACTUALLY ASKED QUESTIONS, AS YOU KNOW, OF TIK VRANAC VIA EMAIL, AND YOU AND ADAM WERE BOTH INCLUDED IN THOSE RESPONSES. PART OF MY QUESTIONING IS, IS THIS TRENDING UP? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? HE DID SEND THE HISTORY OF THE LAST SEVEN YEARS OF VIOLATIONS. BECAUSE MY QUESTION IS, AM I CLEAR IN THAT WE HAVE NOT YET WE HAVEN'T BEEN USING A CARD READER HISTORICALLY, AND THAT'S NEW AS OF THIS YEAR, OR? >> WE DID. THERE WAS A CARD READER. I THINK IT HAD SOME TECHNICAL PROBLEM. I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED. IT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, BUT IT WAS NOT WORKING WHEN THIS HAPPENED. BUT AFTER THE VIOLATION, IT WAS ABLE TO GET THAT FIXED, AND THEY ARE USING IT CURRENTLY. >> IT LOOKS LIKE, BASED ON WHAT WAS SENT TODAY, THERE WAS ONE VIOLATION, 2022, FIVE AND 2023, FOUR, 2024, AND THEN THREE THIS YEAR. >> THOSE ARE NOT AT THE GOLF COURSES. >> CITYWIDE? >> YEAH. >> WHEN WAS THE LAST ONE AT THE GOLF COURSE? >> ADAM, PROBABLY IS IT 2020? >> TWO YEARS AGO? >> BUT THERE WERE A COUPLE BECAUSE NOW WE'RE IN WHAT IS THE EXPLANATION AGAIN, WHEN WE GET INTO A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD, THEN THE PENALTY IS LARGER. THREE VIOLATIONS IN THREE YEARS? >> NO, I BELIEVE IT'S A SECOND VIOLATION WITHIN A THREE-YEAR PERIOD. >> SECOND VIOLATION. THAT'S WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAD FOR CHIEF FNAC WAS, [00:50:02] FIRST OF ALL, HOW IS THE COMPLIANCE CHECK CARRIED OUT? OUR DISCUSSION LARGELY WAS AROUND TRAINING, BECAUSE MY QUESTION WAS, WE HAVE MAYBE THE HIGHER TECH. AND WE JUST GOT OVER TALKING ABOUT HOW EXPENSIVE IT AND THE SUPPORT IS FOR THAT. WE HAVE THE HIGH-TECH, I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT, OF A CARD READER. BUT WHAT ARE WE DOING TO TRAIN INDIVIDUALS? WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE HILARIOUSLY LARGE POSTER, BUT IT COMES DOWN TO THE FACT THAT AS THE CHIEF SENT US IN THAT EMAIL, THE CARDS ARE VERTICAL WHEN YOU'RE UNDERAGE, AND THEN THEY GO HORIZONTAL. THESE ARE VERY BASIC TYPES OF TRAINING, AND MY QUESTION IS ABOUT, WE CAN HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY IF OUR TRAINING PROCESSES ARE NOT CATCHING THESE SORTS OF THINGS, AND WE'RE HAVING THESE VIOLATIONS, A COUPLE OF THEM IN A PERIOD OF TIME. WHAT ARE WE DOING DIFFERENTLY AROUND THAT PROCESS? THAT'S REALLY WHERE MY QUESTION IS GOING FORWARD. >> WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT INCREASING THE TRAINING BEFORE ALL THE STAFF MEMBERS START. THEY DO GO THROUGH, AND THERE IS A VIDEO AND A THING THEY HAVE TO REVIEW BEFORE THEY START. I KNOW IN THE PAST, THEY'VE BROUGHT IN WE'VE BROUGHT IN A THIRD PARTY TO DO ALCOHOL TRAINING FOR THE STAFF, WHICH COULD BE A POSSIBILITY AGAIN. THERE'S FEES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, BUT THAT COULD BE PART OF THE FINE PAYMENT. I THINK IT'S IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE LOOKED AT. UNFORTUNATELY, I FEEL LIKE THEY WERE ADEQUATELY TRAINED, AND A MISTAKE WAS MADE, AND LIKE COUNCILMAN BENSON SAID, IT'S A VERTICAL VERSUS HORIZONTAL ID, SO IT SHOULD BE EASY TO SPOT. MY OTHER PROBLEM WITH JUST RELYING ON AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS WITH STAFF, IS YOU CAN'T JUST RELY ON THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF IT, THAT YOU HAVE A CARD READER, BECAUSE IF SOMEONE'S USING AN ID THAT'S NOT THEIRS, AND IT DOESN'T MATCH THE PICTURE, THAT WOULDN'T SHOW UP WITH THAT. YOU STILL HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE CHECKING EVERYTHING. SO WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT, AND IT COULD BE SOMETHING FOR TRAINING OF STAFF FOR NEXT YEAR SEASONAL, SINCE WE DO GET A LOT OF CHANGEOVER TO REALLY SIT DOWN AND MAKE THAT A BIG FOCUS, AS I THINK IT ALREADY SHOULD HAVE BEEN. >> IS THAT TRAINING REQUIRED BEFORE A PERSON, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE SEASONAL OR FULL-TIME TIME IS ABLE TO MAKE A POINT OF SALE? IS THAT ALCOHOL TRAINING REQUIRED? >> YES. >> IN EVERY CASE, PEOPLE WORKING AT THE GOLF COURSE HAVE HAD THAT ALCOHOL TRAINING? >> SOME OF IT IS DONE. THEN, FOR HIS CASE, KIM, WHO IS OUR GOLF CART MANAGER, SHE SAID HE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS. IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT AN HOUR JUST GOING OVER THE ALCOHOL TRAINING FOR THIS PARTICULAR. >> ONE THING THAT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY IS THAT IN MY DISCUSSION WITH THE CHIEF, THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE DOING THESE COMPLIANCE OR THE PEOPLE INVOLVED ARE UNDERAGE. INDIVIDUALS ARE 17-YEARS-OLD. THESE ARE NOT FOLKS WHO ARE 22, 23-YEARS-OLD, WHO LOOK YOUNG. THEY ARE UNDERAGE. I THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL. I DON'T KNOW IF OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT WORKS WITH OUR STAFF IN THIS AREA. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE KEEP COMPLETELY SEPARATE, AND WE'D BE HIRING A THIRD PARTY FOR TRAINING, OR? >> WE USED TO USE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO DO THE TRAINING? HOWEVER, THERE WAS SOME GUIDANCE THAT CAME OUT TO POLICE DEPARTMENTS. I WANT TO SAY THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, WHERE THEY WERE NO LONGER ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT TRAINING AND ENFORCE. WE STARTED AT THAT POINT, GETTING A THIRD-PARTY TRAINING. A VENDOR TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT TRAINING. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF THE WAY TO DO THE TRAINING IS WE TRY OR HAVE TYPICALLY TRIED TO HAVE, LIKE AN IN-PERSON OR GROUP TRAINING FOR THE SEASONAL STAFF AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. BUT AS YOU KNOW, FROM OUR HIRING PRACTICES, WE'RE BRINGING SEASONALS ARE COMING AND GOING THROUGHOUT THE SEASON. AS YOU GET NEW PEOPLE COMING IN MID-SEASON, THEN IT FALLS UPON USING VIDEO AND ONLINE TRAINING ALONG WITH THE THE CLUBHOUSE MANAGER JUST MAKING SURE THAT HAPPENS. YEAH, IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO A COMPLETE IN-PERSON WITH A GROUP TYPE TRAINING AT THE BEGINNING, ALTHOUGH WE'VE TRIED THAT. WE DO USE THESE OTHER METHODS. AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK, AS THE CHIEF ALLUDED TO IN HIS EMAIL TO YOU, AND THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY ON THE PERSON WHO IS SERVING ONCE THEY'VE HAD THAT TRAINING FOR THEM TO DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE. THAT PLAYS OUT BY THE FACT THAT WHEN THESE VIOLATIONS OCCUR, THE INDIVIDUAL IS CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED. THEN THE ORGANIZATION, [00:55:01] OR IN THIS CASE, THE CITY ITSELF, THE GOLF COURSE IS PENALIZED AS AN ORGANIZATION, AND TWO PARTS TO IT. >> THEY ARE. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I LEARNED AS WELL, IS THAT ONE WOULD IMAGINE THAT IF YOU'RE RECEIVING THIS TYPE OF COMPLIANCE TRAINING, AND YOU, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, MAYBE EVEN A SEASONED EMPLOYEE, UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE PERSONALLY LIABLE FOR THAT, SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO SELL? THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION. >> AS WE'VE LOOKED AT THESE VIOLATIONS, TOO, SO WE LOOK AT IT IN TWO PIECES. I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, LIKE, WELL, A FEW YEARS AGO, THE REASON WE HAVE THE CARD READER WE HAVE NOW IS BECAUSE OF THE PRIOR VIOLATION, AND THAT'S HOW WE USED THE FINE TO BUY TO BUY THE CARD READER. AT THAT TIME, WE WERE HERE. WELL, IDS ARE REALLY HARD TO READ, AND A LOT OF OUR SEASONAL EMPLOYEES THAT'S TIME WERE OLDER OR THIS THING. I SAID, WELL, LET'S GET A DEVICE YOU PUT THE CARD IN, AND IT RED LIGHT GREEN LIGHT HAPPENS, AND SO TRYING TO REMOVE THAT. OR LOOKING AT NOW IS GOING EVEN A STEP FURTHER, MORE AKIN TO WHAT MAYBE AT LEAST I'VE EXPERIENCED IN SOME LIQUOR STORES, WHERE ANY SALE DOESN'T MATTER HOW OLD YOU LOOK OR DON'T LOOK OR WHAT YOUR ID, THE ID IS GOING TO GET ZAPPED BEFORE THE TRANSACTION CAN GO THROUGH. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE LOOKING AT SO THAT WE CAN TRY TO PUT AN ORGANIZATIONAL OR A TECHNICAL FIX, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE'S STILL THAT BEHAVIORAL PIECE OF IT THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED. IT'S NOT ONE OR THE OTHER. IT'S WHAT CAN WE TRY TO DO TO PRECLUDE THIS FROM OCCURRING IN THE FUTURE. >> THAT'S WHAT WAS THE POINT OF MY EMAIL. I THINK I RECALLED IT A LOW-TECH SOLUTION, MEANING THAT IF YOU HAVE A SIGN UP SAYING, PAST THIS DATE, THEN YOU'RE OVER THIS AGE, VERSUS TECHNOLOGY CAN FAIL. IT CAN BE WRONG. IT ALLOWS US TO HAVE, SOMETIMES A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY. I THINK THAT THE COMBINATION OF BOTH IS IMPORTANT. >> YEAH, THAT'S DEFINITELY THE SOLUTION, AND I THINK MAKE IT EVEN CLEAR WHAT THE PENALTIES ARE, NOT JUST FOR US, BUT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL WHO DOES IT. IT'S A SUBSTANTIAL FINE YOU CAN GET, AND YOU'LL HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD GOING FORWARD. >> WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEP ABOUT? IS THERE A THREE-DAY PAUSE NOW AT SOME POINT? >> YES. >> AROUND. >> THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO APPROVE. WHAT WE'VE DONE TYPICALLY AS A CITY THIS COUNCIL KNOWS, IS WHEN THESE HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PAST, WE HAVE TRIED OUR VERY BEST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT GIVING OURSELVES ANY BREAKS. IT'S A LITTLE ODD TO FIND. >> OURS POLICE OURSELVES. >> IF WE JUST PURELY FINE OURSELVES, WE'RE JUST TAKING MONEY FROM ONE POT INTO ANOTHER POT IN THE CITY. WHAT IN THE MASS SAY, YEP, WE'RE GOING TO FIND OURSELVES TO GO PURCHASE SOMETHING OR DO, WHETHER IT BE TRAINING OR A CARD READER OR WHATEVER, AT THAT VALUE POINT TO SAY, HEY, WE'RE TRYING TO TREAT OURSELVES LIKE WE WOULD TREAT ANYONE ELSE THAT'S HAVING A VIOLATION. THAT GOES ALONG WITH AT THIS STAGE OF A SECOND VIOLATION WITHIN THREE YEARS EQUATES TO A THREE OR THREE-DAY SUSPENSION OF THE ALCOHOL LICENSE, WHICH MEANS ON THOSE THREE BUSINESS DAYS, WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SELL ANY ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE. >> IS THIS EMPLOYEE STILL EMPLOYED THE EMPLOYEE THAT'S HOLD THE? >> THIS EMPLOYEE IS STILL EMPLOYED, AND THEY HAVE NOT THEY HAVEN'T HAD THEIR COURT DATE YET, EITHER. >> IF THE COURT FINDS THEM GUILTY, DO WE KEEP THEM EMPLOYED? >> NOT NECESSARILY. WE'VE DEFERRED TO THE SUPERVISOR IN THE PARTICULAR CASE AND THE SITUATION WHEN THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PAST. IN THE PAST, THERE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES WHERE WE DID NOT TERMINATE THE EMPLOYEE; WE KEPT THE EMPLOYEE ON. THERE'S SOME WEIGHING OF, WELL. >> PUNISHMENT ENOUGH. >> PUNISHMENT ENOUGH IN THE COURT SYSTEM VERSUS LOSING YOUR EMPLOYMENT AS WELL. >> IT WOULD DEFINITELY BE TAKEN INTO EFFECT IN DECISIONS ON BRINGING SOMEONE BACK, OR NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS GOING FORWARD WITH THE COURT CASE, BUT IT YEAH, THAT. >> LAST THING I'LL SAY IS I'D BE INTERESTED TO KNOW IN CHIEF FNAC'S ASSESSMENT OF OUR TRAINING PROTOCOL GOING FORWARD BECAUSE HE HAD MANY GOOD POINTS TODAY DURING OUR BRIEF CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT. I OBVIOUSLY KNOWS A LOT. EVEN IF OUR POLICE IS NOT DOING THE TRAINING, I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW THAT WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS, OR AT LEAST KEEPING APPRISED OF RECOMMENDATIONS. >> THE CHIEF HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN OUR DISCUSSIONS. OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS A BIT OF SEPARATION THAT HAS TO. BEING A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY AND GOLF COURSE ENTERPRISE. [01:00:02] >> FOR ANYTHING LIKE FUTURE TRAINING, I'M SURE. YOU WOULD. >> MAYBE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION. HOWEVER, IT IS. >> ANY QUESTIONS? >> ANYONE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION TO? >> MOTION TO APPROVE THE RECOMMENDED FINES AND PENALTIES FOR ARNO ORCHARDS GOLF COURSE. >> I'LL SECOND YOU. >> I MOVED, AND SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> SUPPOSE. SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU, JOE. >> NEXT UP IS THE ATTORNEY REPORT. [Attorney Report] >> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, JUST BRIEFLY, ADAM AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON WHAT WE'RE HOPING IS THE FINAL JPA. I HAVE MY EDITS DONE. I WILL BE CIRCULATING THAT TOMORROW, SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN START HAVING SOME DISCUSSIONS. IF NOT THIS WEEK, RIGHT AFTER LABOR DAY. HOPEFULLY FINAL, I SAID. >> GREAT. >> I HAVE NOTHING ELSE. >> THANK YOU. WE'LL MOVE ON TO SEE ADMINISTRATOR ENGINEER REPORT, ITEM NUMBER 11. [11. Hackberry Park Revitalization Project (24-028) Design Update] >> HACKBERRY PARK REVITALIZATION PROJECT. >> I MOVED COMPTER, SHUT IT DOWN. [NOISE] >> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. TODAY, FOR THE HACKBERRY PARK REVITALIZATION PROJECT. I'M HERE TO PROVIDE A DESIGN UPDATE. AS YOU MAY RECALL, WHEN THE DESIGN AND ENGINEERING PHASE OF THIS PROJECT WAS APPROVED BY THE COUNCIL, YOU ASKED OR DIRECTED THAT I, AS A CITY ENGINEER, WOULD COME BACK AND GIVE YOU AN UPDATE BEFORE WE STARTED MOVING INTO DETAILED DESIGN. THAT'S WHAT I'M HERE TO DO. JUST TAKING IT BACK A STEP, A LITTLE BIT, WHY WORK ON THIS PARK? I PULLED SOME STUFF FROM OUR COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST'S PRESENTATION AFTER WE DID THE RECENT COMMUNITY OUTREACH. BUT IN ESSENCE, THE REASON WE ARE WORKING ON THIS PARK IS THE PARK IS NOT UP TO OUR CITY STANDARDS. THE FIELD EQUIPMENT IS OLD AND NOT BEEN KEPT UP. THE PARKING IS CURRENTLY UNSAFE AND DOESN'T PROVIDE ENOUGH. WE HAVE DEAD AND DYING TREES, AND WE HAVE A DRAINAGE PROBLEM, NOT ONLY IN THE PARK, BUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT SURROUNDS THE PARK, THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. I INCLUDED A COUPLE OF PHOTOS. ONE IS JUST A PHOTO OF ONE OF THE TWO EXISTING T-BALL FIELDS TO GIVE YOU, IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE, JUST EVEN THE FENCING AND THE BACKSTOPS LOOK LIKE. THEN, IN THE CENTER HERE IS AN OVERHEAD OF THE PARK IMAGE FROM ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THE HOUSE AT 140 IS STILL PRESENT. SAYING THAT, THIS PARK HAS BEEN A LONG-TERM FOCUS FOR THE CITY. I'VE BEEN WITH THE CITY NOW FOR 11 YEARS, AND IT'S SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN ADDRESSING WITH RESIDENTS AND USERS AND SPORTS LEAGUES AND EVERYTHING SINCE I FIRST ARRIVED HERE, AND WHAT TO DO. THERE'S BEEN A CONSISTENT INTEREST IN UPGRADING AND FIXING, AND ADDRESSING ISSUES OF THE CURRENT PARK AND ITS CURRENT LAYOUT AND CONFIGURATION PRESENT TO THE COMMUNITY. AS THE CITY HAS BEEN LOOKING AT THIS, I SEE A TYPO; THE CITY PURCHASED THE ONE REMAINING PROPERTY IN 2016, NOT 2026. SO 140 HACKBERRY HILL WAS PURCHASED BY THE CITY IN 2016, AND THEN THE CITY OFFICIALLY ACQUIRED IT IN 2022, AND WE CLEARED THE SITE, DEMOED THE BUILDINGS IN 2023. >> WAS THAT A LIFE ESTATE OR SOMETHING? >> YES. IT LOOKED LIKE A REVERSE MORTGAGE LIFE ESTATE TYPE OF THING. WHEN THE CITY PURCHASED IT, THEN THE HOMEOWNERS WERE ALLOWED TO LIVE THERE, AND THEN ONCE THEY MOVED, WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED AT THE END OF 2022, THEN THE CITY WAS ABLE TO TAKE POSSESSION OF THE PROPERTY. THAT LIFE ESTATE AND THE PURCHASE OF THAT PROPERTY IS ONE OF THE REASONS WE HELD OFF ON ANY OF THE MAJOR REHABILITATION FOR THE PARK. THE IDEA OF PURCHASING THAT CENTER PARCEL WAS THAT IT WOULD OPEN UP A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR HOW WE WOULD WANT TO TRY TO LAY OUT THE PARK IN FUTURE. [01:05:02] THAT TOOK US TO A PLANNING PROCESS IN 2023. WE'D HAD THIS PARK SITTING ON OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN, AND WE KEPT MOVING IT AROUND IN TIME AS WE LEARNED WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY. BUT AGAIN, ONCE THAT PROPERTY CAME INTO POSSESSION WITH IT, THE PARKS COMMISSION AND THE CITY BEGAN A MORE FORMAL PROCESS. WE DID SOME PLANNING BACK IN 2023. WE CALLED IT A MASTER PLAN. YOU CAN CALL IT A FEASIBILITY STUDY, WHATEVER YOU WANT, WHERE WE LOOKED AT IT. THIS IS JUST A SUMMARY OF WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO. WE KNEW WHAT ISSUES WE HAD. WE ALREADY MENTIONED THOSE PARKING, DRAINAGE, SAFETY, AND THEN WE WENT OUT AND HAD A NUMBER OF LISTENING SESSIONS WITH THE COMMUNITY AND WITH STAKEHOLDERS TO SEE WHAT THE COMMUNITY WAS LOOKING TO HAVE AND WHAT HAVE YOU, AND PREDOMINANTLY WAS TO KEEP IT AS A YOUTH SPORTS, AND SOME OTHER AMENITIES. THEN OVER INTO THE BLUE AREA, THINGS THAT WE HEARD OF IS KEEP THE SOUTHERN BALL FIELD, KEEP THE SLEDDING HILL, KEEP THE PLANTS AND TREES THE BEST WE CAN, MAKE THE PARKING SAFER, PROVIDE MULTI-USE FIELDS, HAVE POLLINATORS, DO PICNIC TABLES, STORMWATER IMPROVEMENTS, ALL THOSE THINGS YOU SEE LISTED THERE, AND IF POSSIBLE, MAKE THE PARK MORE ADA ACCESSIBLE AS WE DO ALL THOSE THINGS. THAT THEN BRINGS US TO JUST EARLIER THIS YEAR, WHEN WE BROUGHT FORWARD A PROPOSAL THEN TO TAKE THIS AND START MOVING IT TO THE NEXT STEP. THE COUNCIL ASKED US TO DO SOME MORE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE DONE. WE FORMED A COMMITTEE WITH THREE PARK'S COMMISSIONERS, THREE MEMBERS OF STAFF, AND OUR CONSULTANT LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT TO RE-LOOK AT THE PARK. WE TOOK BASICALLY WHERE WE'D LEFT OFF WITH THE PLANNING PROCESS, AND THEY'RE SMALL THERE, BUT WE PREPARED THREE DIFFERENT CONCEPTS, A, B, AND C, AND C WAS JUST THE CONCEPT THAT WAS WHERE WE HAD LEFT OFF THE LAYOUT OF THE PARK AT THE END OF THE MASTER PLAN. THEN THE OTHER TWO CONCEPTS ARE JUST DIFFERENT WAYS OF ALIGNING AND ARRANGING FIELD SPACE. WE USED THAT TO DO TWO THINGS. ONE WAS TO HAVE AN ONLINE SURVEY WITH THE COMMUNITY, WHICH WE RECEIVED, I THINK, 53 RESPONSES, AND THEN TO HAVE AN IN-PERSON COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, WHICH I KNOW SOME OF YOU CAME OUT. FROM THE FEEDBACK WE GOT BOTH ONLINE AND IN PERSON, AS WE SAT AND ANALYZED THAT, WE CAME OUT WITH THREE MAIN THEMES THAT FOLKS WERE STILL TALKING TO US ABOUT. ONE WAS PARKING, PARTICULARLY HOW MUCH OF IT, OR THE SIZE AND WHERE TO PUT IT. THE OTHER WAS BASEBALL FIELDS, THE QUANTITY AND LOCATION, SO AGAIN, WHERE TO PUT IT. MOST PEOPLE WANTED TWO T-BALL FIELDS, AND LOCATION-WISE, FOLKS WANTED BOTH THE PARKING AND THE ACTIVE PART OF THE FIELDS, THE BASEBALL FIELD, SO I THINK A HOME BASE TO BE ORIENTED AWAY FROM OR IS POSITIONED ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE PARCEL ON THE WILLOW SIDE, AS OPPOSED TO THE MORE POPULATED WESTERN SIDE ON THE HACKBERRY HILLSIDE. THEN WE RECEIVED THE SAME IDEA ON THE MULTI-USE FIELD. WE RECEIVE FEEDBACK, WE WANT MULTI-USE FIELDS, AND WE WANT VARIOUS VARYING OPTIONS AND LOCATION. FROM THAT, WE TOOK AND DEVELOPED ANOTHER LAYOUT, TAKING WHAT WE LEARNED FROM THOSE THREE LAYOUTS INTO THIS ONE THAT YOU HAVE ON THE LEFT. WHAT WE LOOKED AT TO DO HERE WAS TO KEEP THE GREEN SPACE WHILE PROVIDING SAFER PARKING AND USE SPORTS PLAYING OPTIONS. THE BIG ONE IS THE OPTIONS, KEEPING AS MANY OPTIONS AS WE CAN AND AS MUCH GREEN SPACE AS WE COULD. YOU'LL NOTICE IN THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT, WE'VE PUSHED THE MAJORITY OF THE PARKING OVER INTO THE WILLOW DRIVE SIDE WITH SOME ANGLE PARKING AND A ONE-WAY THROUGH TO SQUISH IT AND MAKE IT AS SMALL AND MINIMIZE THE PAVEMENT IMPACTS TO THE PARK. WE'VE ALSO PUT THE STORMWATER IMPROVEMENTS ON THAT SIDE OF THE PARK ALONG THE EXISTING RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH IS THE DOWNHILL SIDE AND WHERE THE WATER GOES ANYWAY. WE KEPT THE BALL FIELDS, AND GENERALLY, THEY'RE SAME ORIENTATION. THEY ARE SLIGHTLY SHIFTED TO THE EAST TO ACCOMMODATE THE THINGS WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, THE PARKING AND THE STORMWATER. THEN THE OTHER BIG PIECE THAT WE HEARD, [01:10:03] WHICH YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS PICTURE, IS WE HEARD PEOPLE WANTED US TO PRESERVE THE SLEDDING HILL, WHICH IS COMING DOWN OFF THE PLAYGROUND, SO WE'VE DONE THAT. THEN, IN GENERAL, PRESERVE THIS WHOLE CORNER OF OF THE EXISTING PARK, SO THE PLAYGROUND CALLED THE BASKETBALL/SPORTS [INAUDIBLE] WE DID HEAR FROM RESIDENTS THAT THEY'D LIKE MAYBE SOME IMPROVEMENTS OF THOSE FEATURES IN THE FUTURE, BUT THEIR FORM AND FUNCTION WHERE THEY ARE TO REMAIN THE SAME. WELL, THERE WILL BE NEEDS IN THE FUTURE TO FIX SURFACES AND UPDATE PLAYGROUNDS IN THE FUTURE. BUT THAT'S NOT AN IMMINENT NEED RIGHT NOW. SOME OTHER ELEMENTS THAT WE LOOKED AT AND WE HEARD BITS AND PIECES ON WAS HAVING SOME PATHS TO MAKE IT MORE ADA ACCESSIBLE. IF WE DO HAVE THE PARKING ON THE ONE SIDE, THAT SOMEBODY WITH SOME MOBILITY ISSUES COULD STILL GET TO ALL THE FEATURES OF THE PARK, WHICH PLAYGROUNDS OR THE MAIN BALL FIELDS, THOSE THINGS. WE KNEW WE COULD NOT ACCOMMODATE ALL THE PARKING OR THE PUSH WAS NOT TO PAVE THE MAJORITY OF THE PARK OR A LARGE PORTION OF THE PARK. AS WE'VE SHOWN IT HERE, WE ARE NOT ACCOMMODATING ALL OF THE PARKING IN THAT PAVED AREA SO WE HAVE A CONCEPT OF HAVING SOME OVERFLOW PARKING AROUND THE PERIMETER ON THE SIDE ROADS AS WELL AS ALLOWING NOT BALL FIELD USERS, BUT MAYBE SOMEBODY IS GOING THERE JUST TO USE THE PLAYGROUND OR THE BASKETBALL COURT, THERE'D BE A PLACE NEARBY, WHICH PEOPLE ARE DOING ANYWAY BY PULLING OFF THE ROAD AND INTO THE GRASS. WE'RE LOOKING AT THINGS CALLED GRASS PAVERS, WHERE YOU CAN STILL HAVE THE GRASS, BUT YOU REINFORCE IT SO THE VEHICLES DON'T DAMAGE THE GRASS AND ALL THAT STUFF IF THEY USE THAT SPACE. OTHER THINGS WE HEARD. I WANTED IT TO BE SAFE. THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS ON STORM PONDS, AND I THINK THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME THOUGHTS THAT, IF YOU PUT STORM PONDS OR FEET DEEP OF STANDING WATER ALL THE TIME, SO MOSQUITOES. USUALLY THEY'RE INTERMITTENT, AND SO THEY'RE RELATIVELY SHALLOW, AND MOST OF THE TIME WE'LL HAVE JUST WATER, VEGETATION IN THEM. WE LOOKED AT THAT AND USING THINGS LIKE THE STORM PONDS, ALSO AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE NATIVE PLANTINGS, WETLAND-TYPE PLANTINGS, AS WELL AS THEN HOPEFULLY PUT SOME INFORMATIONAL STUFF AROUND THAT, THE SIGNAGE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO EDUCATE HOW THAT STUFF IS USED. THE OTHER BIT IS WE WOULD TRY TO PRESERVE AS MANY HEALTHY TREES AS WE CAN. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS PARK DOES NOT HAVE A LOT OF HEALTHY TREES. WE HAVE A LOT OF ASH TREES. WE EVEN HAVE SOME MAPLES THAT HAVE SOME CROWN DIEBACK AND SOME OTHER STUFF GOING ON. WHILE WE CERTAINLY WANT TO TRY TO PRESERVE, LUCKILY, MOST OF THE HEALTHY TREES HAPPEN TO BE UP IN THAT CORNER AROUND THE PLAYGROUND AND THE BALL FIELD, SO THAT'S PRETTY EASY. THERE'S A COUPLE OTHERS HERE AND THERE THAT WILL BE ABLE TO PRESERVE AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE PARK, BUT THERE ARE A LOT THAT WILL NEED TO COME OUT, SIMILAR TO OUR RIGHT-OF-WAY DISCUSSION EARLIER TODAY. THEN, BEING MINDFUL ABOUT WHAT WE BRING IN TO REPLACE THOSE TREES AND TRY TO BRING SOME SHADE AND SOME DIVERSITY TO PARK, AND HOW WE DO THOSE THINGS. THERE'S A COUPLE OTHER PICTURES OF THE EXACT SAME THING, JUST TO SHOW OPPORTUNITIES FOR DIFFERENT KINDS OF FIELD SPORT LAYOUTS THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO LINE. THESE ARE NOT NECESSARILY MEANT TO SAY THAT WE'RE BUILDING A BESPOKE FIELD OF THAT SIZE OR TYPE, BUT RATHER THE WAY WE HAVE TRIED TO DEPICT THE IMPROVEMENTS, SO WE HAVE A GENERAL OPEN AREA THAT COULD BE USED IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT MANNERS. THE ONE THERE IS SHOWING SOME 100 BY 150 FOOT FIELDS, THAT'S A FIELD THAT WOULD BE CONDUCIVE TO UNDER EIGHT-YEAR-OLDS PLAYING SOCCER AND SOME OF THE OTHER FIELD SPORTS, THE 140 BY 240 IS AKIN TO UNDER 10 TYPE USE. THERE MAY BE A WAY TO SQUEEZE A FULL-SIZE, SAY, SOCCER FIELD IN THERE, BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY TIGHT, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS PARK WOULD EVER BE USED FOR THAT THING. IT'S JUST NOT CONDUCIVE TO THAT. THIS PARK, JUST BY ITS NATURE, ITS LAYOUT, ITS SIZE, AND WHAT PEOPLE WANT IS TO AIM AT THE YOUNGER SPORTS, WHICH IS WHAT WE THINK WE WOULD HAVE ABLE TO ACHIEVE WITH A LAYOUT LIKE THIS. JUST REAL QUICK, AGAIN, SHOWING WHAT I SHOWED BEFORE, THE WAY IT IS NOW, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, JUST TO INDICATE NOT A TON OF DIFFERENCES THAT ARE VISIBLE FROM ABOVE, [01:15:01] OTHER THAN DEALING WITH THE PARKING. THE ONE MAIN THING THAT IS DIFFICULT TO JUST SHOW ON THE MAP IS HOW WE WILL TRY TO IMPROVE THE STORMWATER. YOU CAN SEE FROM SOME OF THESE OLD IMAGES WHERE THE WET AREAS OF THE EXISTING FIELD SPACE IS. A BIG PART OF THIS PROJECT, WE'LL BE DOING THE GRADING PROJECT, ONE TO GET THE SURFACE WATER TO DRAIN IN THE WAY THAT WE WANT IT TO DRAIN, AS WELL AS WE'LL LIKELY BE ADDING DRAIN TILE AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO THEN HELP AUGMENT THAT. WE'VE ALSO CONTEMPLATED POTENTIALLY PUTTING IN IRRIGATION IF THAT'S NEEDED, AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS, ALTHOUGH THOSE ARE NOT DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE PROJECT. >> THE THOUGHT THAT WHERE THE HOUSE WAS, WHICH IS ELEVATED FROM THE REST OF IT, THAT ELEVATION WOULD STAY THE SAME, IT LOOKS THAT WAY, OR WILL THAT BE CUT DOWN A BIT? >> PREDOMINANTLY UP IN THE NORTH, UP IN THIS AREA WHERE THERE IS WHAT USED TO BE YEARS AGO WAS A SKATING RINK, IT HASN'T BEEN USED FOR 10 YEARS THAT WAY, BUT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT TAKING SOME OF THE MATERIAL THAT SITS IN HERE AND USING THAT MATERIAL TO EVEN OUT DOWN HERE. AGAIN, THERE'S A DESIRE TO PRESERVE THE SLEDDING HILL. AS YOU CAN SEE, SOME TWO-FOOT CONTOURS IN LIGHT WHITE. I DON'T KNOW HOW VISIBLE THEY ARE FROM A DISTANCE, BUT YOU'VE GOT A RELATIVELY STEEP HILL COMING DOWN FROM THE PLAYGROUND. THAT REMAINS AS IS, NO CHANGE THERE, AND THEN COMING AROUND TO ROUGHLY IN WHERE THE EXISTING HOUSE IS OR WHERE THE HOUSE WAS. BUT THEN FLATTENING THIS, YOU'LL HAVE A STEEPER SLOPE COMING OFF OF THE EDGE OF THE PARK AND A SHALLOWER SLOPE GOING DOWN THE BALL FIELD. >> KEEP THAT AS A GREEN SPACE. >> YES. >> EVERYTHING YOU SEE OTHER THAN WHERE WE WERE SHOWING THE IN FIELDS FOR THE BASEBALL OR FOR THE TEE-BALL, THE PLAYGROUND, AND OBVIOUSLY, THE PARKING LOTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. THAT JUST REMAINS GREEN SPACE. >> WOULD THERE STILL BE DRAINAGE TO ACROSS THE ROAD, OR IS IT ALL GOING INTO THAT STORMWATER POND? >> YES AND YES. THE EXISTING SITE AND THE WAY THE EXISTING AREA DRAINS IS FROM WEST TO EAST. THERE ARE THREE CROSSINGS THAT DRAIN NOT ONLY THE PARK, BUT THE AREA. SO THERE IS A PIPE THAT GOES UNDER THE ROAD ON THE NORTH SIDE, ABOUT MIDWAY, AND THEN ON THE SOUTH SIDE, THOSE WOULD REMAIN AS THE SAME. STAY THE SAME. EVEN IF WE WANTED TO CHANGE THOSE, THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD START HAVING SOME DIFFICULTIES BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY CHANGE THE DRAINAGE OF THE WHOLE AREA AND IMPACT THE DOWNSTREAM, WHICH IS ACROSS WILLOW TO THE WEST, WHERE ALL THIS AREA DRAINS INTO A WETLAND. >> TO THE EAST. >> SORRY, TO THE EAST, YES, SORRY, UNDER WILLOWS TO THE EAST INTO A WETLAND, AND THEN THAT WETLAND EVENTUALLY MAKES ITS WAY INTO LONG LAKE CREEK DOWN TO [INAUDIBLE] BUT YES. THE IDEA BEHIND THE PONDS IS WE CAN TAKE THE DRAINAGE THAT IS COMING FROM UPLAND AND THROUGH THE PARK. WE CAN GET IT INTO SOME STORM PONDS WHERE WE CAN PROVIDE THE NECESSARY TREATMENT, ALLOW SEDIMENTS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO SETTLE OUT BEFORE IT THEN MOVES ON ITS WAY IF IT DOES. OBVIOUSLY, THE OTHER PART OF HAVING STORM PONDS AND WHAT HAVE YOU, IS IT ALLOWS A CERTAIN OPPORTUNITY FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WATER TO DRAIN INTO THE SOIL, WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT, AS WELL AS TO TRANSPIRATE OR EVAPORATE INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. SO WE'RE DEALING WITH ALL PARTS OF THE HYDRAULIC CYCLE THERE AS WE DEAL WITH OUR STORM WATER. ALSO ADDING STORMWATER PONDS AND DOING TREATMENT ON SITE IS ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE WOULD HAVE, EVEN IF WE DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT TO MEET OUR STORMWATER REQUIREMENTS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO MEET AS WE GO THROUGH PERMITTING, BOTH WITH THE WATERSHED AND PCA AS WE WOULD GO THROUGH THE DETAILS. >> WAS THIS STORMWATER CATCH BASIN PART OF THE 2023 PLAN? >> YES. IT'S HARD TO SEE. SORRY. THIS IS THE PLAN THAT WE CAME OUT OF THAT. THIS IS WHERE WE HAD IT POSITIONED HERE. SO SAME IDEA. ON THE EAST SIDE, WE HAD IT ON THE SOUTHEAST IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, THE WAY THE BALL FIELDS AND EVERYTHING HAVE BEEN CONFIGURED IN THE NEW ONE, WE'RE DOING IT AS LONG. STORM PONDS ON THE FAR EAST SIDE, THAT ALSO OFFERS US AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE SOME BUFFER SPACE IN BETWEEN THE ACTIVE PORTIONS OF THE PLAY FIELDS AND THIS ROAD, WHICH IS WILLOW DRIVE. IF YOU'RE HAVING A HARD TIME PICTURING THOSE, [01:20:01] WE DID AN EXACT OR A VERY SIMILAR STORM MITIGATION PROCESS WHEN WE BUILD OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD HERE. IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE FAR NORTH OF OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD, LOOK IMMEDIATELY TO YOUR RIGHT, RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET TO THE INTERSECTION, IT'S A SIMILAR POND THAT WE PUT IN THERE. IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A WELL VEGETATED DITCH, AND IT'S THE SAME SAME KIND. >> WILL THERE BE NEW BACKSTOPS PUT IN? >> YES. WE'VE BEEN HOLDING OFF ON THOSE REAL PROPERTY IMPROVEMENTS. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE BASEBALL ASSOCIATION OF SAY, "HEY, WE DON'T WANT TO." WE NORMALLY, ON BACKSTOPS AND ALL THAT KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE, WE NORMALLY PARTNER WITH THE ORONO BASEBALL ASSOCIATION. WE'VE DONE GRANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IN TANDEM WITH THEM TO PAY FOR THOSE THINGS AND BOTH OF US HAD SAID OVER THE YEARS, WE DON'T WANT TO INVEST EITHER TAXPAYER MONEY, OR ASSOCIATION MONEY, OR COUNTY GRANT MONEY ON DOING THOSE THINGS UNTIL WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE DOING WITH THE SITE. SOME OF THOSE, WE'VE BEEN COBBLING THEM OR BANDAGING THEM AS BEST AS WE COULD, BUT JUST GO LOOK AT THEM. >> NO. I HAVE. >> THEY'RE BEYOND. >> NO. I HAVE. >> THIS IS AN IDEA THAT'S SUPPORTED BY THE RELEVANT YOUTH ATHLETIC ASSOCIATIONS? >> THE BASEBALL ASSOCIATION, YES. THEY PARTICIPATED IN, WHAT YOU CALL? THE IN-PERSON. WE'VE HEARD FROM THEM. THEIR MAIN THING WAS TO KEEP TWO TEE-BALL FIELDS. THEY WANT THE CAPACITY FOR TWO TEE-BALL FIELDS THERE. THEY WERE NOT THAT CONCERNED WITH HAVING LITTLE LEAGUE OR ANY OF THAT, THEY HAVE OTHER PLACES, LIKE OUR BEARWOOD FIELD OR THEY HAVE FIELDS UP HERE, NORTH OF THE SCHOOL. >> IN CARLSON. >> THEY USE FOR THAT, BUT THEY DID EXPRESS A NEED FOR THE TEE-BALL FIELDS. THE YOUTH SPORTS [OVERLAPPING] >> ASSOCIATION DID THEY USE THE [INAUDIBLE]. [OVERLAPPING] >> SOCCER WAS SUPPORTIVE. THEY TOLD ME THEY WOULD BE HAPPY TO GIVE ME A LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION FOR ANY GRANT PROPOSALS. I DID NOT REACH OUT DIRECTLY AGAIN TO THE LACROSSE OR FLAG FOOTBALL, BUT THEY ARE BOTH AN AVID USERS OF IT. ACTUALLY, WE HAVE FLAG FOOTBALL WANTING TO GET OUT THERE NOW. WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO TELL THEM A WEEK AGO, I THINK FOR DRAINAGE. >> THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO PAINT THE LINES, BUT THEY ARE OUT THERE. >> THE LINES ARE ALREADY PAINTED. IT'S ALREADY [OVERLAPPING] >> THEY'RE AT A WAIT, JUST BECAUSE OF THE DRAINAGE, BUT THEY'RE DONE. >> WE REACHED OUT AND WORKED QUITE HAND-IN-HAND WITH ALL OF THOSE GROUPS WHEN WE DID THE FIRST ROUND. IF YOU WANT AN AWKWARD EXPERIENCE JUST PUT ALL OF THOSE YOUTH GROUPS ACTIVITIES IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER AND THERE'S SOME COMPETITION BETWEEN THEM. >> THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED BY THE SOFTBALL. I DON'T RECALL. MR. PARKER, AT THE OPEN HOUSE, HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT THAT HAS NOT OCCURRED THUS FAR, AND HE THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE A USEFUL THING TO DO. I'M STRUCK BY THIS. WHEN THIS WAS BEING TALKED ABOUT IN 2023, THE DESIGN, YOU HAD IT, IF YOU COULD PUT IT BACK JUST A MOMENT AGO, WAS FOR ONE MULTI USE AND ONE TEE-BALL. THAT'S JUST A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, AND WE'VE COMPLETELY CHANGED COURSE. NOT COMPLETELY, BUT IT'S BEEN A BIG COURSE CHANGE IN TERMS OF THIS LAYOUT NOW. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I'M STILL AND I SAID THIS PROBABLY IN 2023, THAT I HADN'T SEEN ANY DATA OR SPREADSHEETS ON THE USE OF THE FIELD. IT'S ESSENTIALLY BEING COMMUNICATED VERBALLY ABOUT A PARK COMMISSIONER WHO'S TALKED TO AN ASSOCIATION OR STAFF, WHO'S TALKED TO AN ASSOCIATION. MR. PARKER AT THE OPEN HOUSE INDICATED THAT THOSE ASSOCIATIONS HAVE NOT BEEN IN A ROOM TOGETHER, IF EVER FOR QUITE SOME TIME. SO IT'S NICE TO HEAR THAT THE TEE-BALLS, AND I THINK THEY ARE ALSO SUPPORTED BY THE COMMUNITY. MY QUESTION IS ABOUT THE NEED, AND THE USE CASE FOR THESE SPORTING FIELD AREAS BECAUSE ONE THING THAT I'M STRUCK BY, AGAIN AND AGAIN WITH THIS PROJECT AND THE FEEDBACK IS THAT THIS IS A PARK THAT HAS A DISTINCTLY NEIGHBORHOOD FEEL FIELD. IT'S NOT IN AN INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, IT'S NOT IN A LARGE CITY THAT HAS LARGE TRAFFIC PATTERNS COMING BY. I DON'T BELIEVE WE'VE DONE TRAFFIC STUDIES, AND WHAT I CONTINUE TO BE CONFRONTED WITH IN THESE INTERACTIONS IS THAT THE USE CASE HERE COULD INVOLVE LARGER QUANTITIES OF PERSONS COMING INTO THIS RESIDENTIAL AREA FOR SPORTING EVENTS. WHERE IS THE CROSSOVER? WHERE IS THE PARKING? WHERE IS THE NEED? SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THERE'S ANECDOTAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS, BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY INFORMATION PRESENTED AS SUCH. [01:25:03] WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT PARK IS WELL USED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND BASKET BALL AND RECREATING IN THE PARK, I THINK ARE, WHAT IS IT? 70% OF USAGE IS THE PARKLAND OR THE PARK STRUCTURES, BASKET BALL. THE SPORTING ASSOCIATIONS ARE A THIRD OR SO OR COMBINED. THAT'S JUST AN OPEN QUESTION I HAVE BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT A PARK DESIGN, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE YOUTH SPORTS, IT'S ABOUT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FEEL, THE HOMES IN THE AREA, THE IMPACT TO THAT RESIDENTIAL AREA, AND THE TRAFFIC PATTERNS, AND AT LEAST WHERE I'M COMING FROM, IS NOT WANTING TO DO AN OVERHAUL THAT IS SO EXTREME THAT THE USE INCREASES EXPONENTIALLY, AND THAT WE HAVE BITE OFF MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW HERE. THAT IS AN OPEN QUESTION THAT I HAVE ABOUT THE CURRENT DESIGN. >> I WILL GO BACK TO THAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE GOT TO WITH THIS UPDATED DESIGN WAS EXACTLY THAT ISSUE. JUST AS FAR AS DATA TUBE, AS PART OF THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOW THE FIELD IS CURRENTLY BEING USED, BUT WHAT IS THE POTENTIAL FOR THE FUTURE? SO THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF OUR INFORMATION, AND OUR WHAT HAVE YOU, AND THE REASON TO REACH OUT TO THE VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE PARTNER WITH TO ASK, HOW WOULD YOU USE THIS? WHAT ARE YOUR NEEDS? THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. I WILL SAY THAT IN THE SURVEY, WE HAD ABOUT AN EVEN SPLIT BETWEEN FOLKS WHO SAY THEY USE THIS PARK FOR [NOISE] USE SPORTS LIKE BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL, AND THOSE WHO USED IT FOR FIELD SPORTS LIKE FOOTBALL, SOCCER, AND LACROSSE. SO IT WAS A PRETTY EVEN SPLIT. THERE'S SOME DATA THERE THAT'S TELLING US THAT THIS IS HOW THE PARK IS BEING USED. >> THAT'S BASED ON THE 50 PEOPLE WHO RESPONDED, THOSE NUMBERS DOWN THERE? >> THEN ALSO FROM JUST TALKING TO THE VARIOUS GROUPS. WE KNOW FROM JUST OUR REGISTRATION, WE KNOW THAT HAVE, LIKE FOOTBALL ARE ACTIVELY USING IT AND HAVE BEEN FOR AT LEAST THE LAST SIX OR SEVEN YEARS. >> LONGER. >> YEP. >> FOOTBALL NUMBERS ARE GOING UP, TOO. IT'S BECOME REALLY POPULAR. >> THEN MORE RECENTLY, A LITTLE BIT FROM THE YOUTH LACROSSE FOLKS. SO THAT'S EXACTLY PART OF WHAT YOU WERE BRINGING UP BEFORE, IS EXACTLY WHY WE ENDED UP WITH THE DRAFT LAYOUT THAT WE HAVE HERE IS THAT WE HAVE INSTEAD OF HAVING ANY BESPOKE FIELD SPACE, WE'VE CREATED A OPEN GREEN SPACE THAT CAN BE USED IN A MYRIAD OF WAYS, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU WOULD LINE IT OR WHAT GOALS YOU WOULD PUT OUT AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. IT PROVIDES US FLEXIBILITY INTO THE FUTURE TO MEET SOME FUTURE NEEDS OR NOT NEEDS. IF YOU JUST WANT TO GO OUT THERE AND CHIP SOME GOLF BALLS, YOU CAN DO THAT AS WELL, BECAUSE IT'S AN OPEN SPACE. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO PLAY BOCCE BALL OUT THERE, I UNDERSTAND. FRISBEE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, THE IDEA IS TO KEEP IT OPEN. THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY, WE'VE HEARD SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. PART OF THAT, THE WAY WE'VE ADDRESSED THAT IN OUR OTHER PARKS, IN PARTICULAR, OUR ACTIVE PARKS IS IF WE NEEDED TO, WE REGULATE USE. WE CAN REGULATE USE BY CHANGING THE HOURS OF THE PARK, WE CAN REGULATE USE BY CHANGING THE TIMES THAT VARIOUS FACILITIES ARE AVAILABLE FOR RESERVATION AND SO WE SAY WE CAN'T HAVE ANY ORGANIZED TEE-BALL ON TUESDAYS FROM 8:00 TO 10:00 P.M. BECAUSE THAT'S A GOOD TIME, THEN WE CAN RESTRICT THAT. THAT'S MORE OF AN OPERATIONAL THING THAN NECESSARILY A PHYSICAL IMPROVEMENT TO THE PARK TO ADDRESS THE NEEDS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE. THEN THE OTHER THING, AS FAR AS TRYING TO LIMIT THE IMPACTS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AGAIN, WHAT WE CONTINUALLY HEARD IN BOTH TIMES IS PUT THE ACTIVE THINGS ON THE WILLOW SIDE. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE DONE IS TRY TO KEEP THE TEE-BALL THINGS OVER WHERE THEY'RE CLOSER OVER HERE. WE DID HAVE SOME OPTIONS, AND YOU SAW ON THE OTHERS WHERE WE WERE PUTTING HOME BASE OVER HERE. WE HEARD FROM THE RESIDENTS THAT, "OH, WE DON'T WANT TO LOOK OUT OUR FRONT DOOR AND SEE FENCING FOR A BACKSTOP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT RIGHT UP UPON US, SO PUT IT ON THE OTHER SIDE." SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID. THE SAME WITH THE PARKING. WE'VE HAD VARIOUS VERSIONS OF, "OKAY, WHERE DO WE TRY TO FIT, WE CALL IT THE FORMAL PARKING OR THE PARKING LOT?" TRYING TO PUSH IT OVER TO THE WILLOW SIDE, TRY TO SMUSH IT UP BY DOING ONE WAY OPERATIONS WITH SLANT PARKING, AND THEN ALSO WE COME INTO THE PARKING LOT OFF OF ELM, WHERE THERE'S ONLY ONE RESIDENT AND IT'S A LITTLE PUSHED OVER, AND THEN YOU'D COME BACK OUT ONTO WILLOW. THEN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS SEPARATE FROM THE PROJECT, BUT SOMETHING I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH SOME MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, AND I'M JUST WAITING FOR THEM TO TELL ME THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT TO DO [01:30:02] IS THE OTHER OPTION THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE WHERE IS TO RESTRICT PARKING. SO I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF INQUIRIES ON MAPLE LANE FROM THE RESIDENTS THERE ABOUT CREATING A NO-PARKING ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF MAPLE LANE AND ON PARKSIDE. I HAD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE FROM HACKBERRY AND AROUND JUST ASK ME CONVERSATIONALLY WHILE WE WERE OUT THERE THAT DAY IF THAT WAS POSSIBLE. THAT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE. WE HAVE A PROCESS AND A PROGRAM IN OUR TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT BASICALLY SAYS, WE JUST NEED A MAJORITY OF THE IMPACT OF PEOPLE TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT TO ASK US TO DO THAT AND THEN WE CAN START DOWN A PROCESS TO DO THAT. ACTUALLY, NO PARKING IS FAIRLY SIMPLE PROCESS. THEY COME AND WE TAKE A LOOK AT IT, I REVIEW IT AS THE ENGINEER WITH THE POLICE CHIEF TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE NO ISSUES, AND WE BRING IT TO THE CITY COUNCIL. YOU TAKE A VOTE. IF YOU DECLARE IT A NO PARKING ZONE, WE GO OUT AND WE MARK IT, AND THEN WE CAN ENFORCE IT. >> NOW, IT WOULD PROTECT THE ABILITY OF PUBLIC SAFETY VEHICLES TO GET IN. > YEAH. BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE HEARD OVER THE YEARS IS WHEN WE DO HAVE BIGGER EVENTS, IF YOU HAVE TWO TEE-BALL GAMES GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME. YOU CAN HAVE A 50+ CARS THERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTIONS OR ENCOURAGEMENT OF WHERE TO PARK. PEOPLE PARK HAPHAZARDLY, WHERE THEY MAY BE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD, THEY'RE IN PEOPLE'S FRONT YARDS. AGAIN, THAT WAS ONE OF THE IDEAS. PUT THE FORMAL PARKING AS FAR OVER AS WE COULD, AND THEN USE ANY OVERFLOW PARKING DELIBERATELY ON THE PARK SIDE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD SO THAT WE'RE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT WANT TO WALK THE ROAD, NOT TEAR UP THE EXISTING TURF, AND NOT BE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. >> WOULD WE PUT NO PARKING ON WILLOW AS WELL? >> IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S. >> WE COULD, IT'S NOT CURRENTLY BEEN SIGN-POSTED THAT WAY. >> ARE THERE ANY NO PARKING SIGNS AROUND THIS PARK CURRENTLY? >> I DO NOT BELIEVE SO. >> I JUST WONDER ABOUT CREATING, AGAIN, A SITUATION WHERE USE MAY INCREASE, AND THEN WE'VE GOT ENFORCEMENT ISSUES BECAUSE NOW WE'RE GOING TO SAY, DON'T PARK. WE'RE BUILDING THIS TO ACCOMMODATE A LOT MORE PEOPLE, BUT NOW WE'RE GOING TO START WITH PARKING RESTRICTIONS, AND WE'RE GETTING INTO A POTENTIAL. >> WE'RE NOT TRYING TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO BUILD THE PARKING AND THE USE BASED OFF OF TWO T BALL GAMES OCCURRING SIMULTANEOUSLY, AND THAT'S WHERE WE GET THE 50 CAR NUMBER. YOU CAN'T HAVE TWO T BALL GAMES GOING PLUS TWO MORE FIELD SPORTS AT THE SAME TIME, THE SITE IT'S NOT CONDUCIVE TO THAT. ALMOST ANY WAY YOU LAY THIS OUT, IF YOU'RE HAVING SOME COMPETITION WHERE YOU TEND TO HAVE MORE PEOPLE, YOU'RE LIMITED, JUST BY THE WAY THE FIELDS WOULD LAY OUT, YOU COULDN'T HAVE MORE THAN 50 VEHICLES. >> SOME OF THE FEEDBACK WE'VE RECEIVED IS ABOUT THE IDEA THAT YOU'VE GOT FOLKS COMING IN FOR THE NEXT EVENT, WHETHER IT'S A SOCCER GAME OR SOMETHING ELSE, AND YOU'VE GOT THIS TIME WHERE YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE HANGING OUT AFTER A GAME, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT A WHOLE NEW INFLUX. AGAIN, IF WE'RE REVAMPING EVERYTHING, AND THEN THERE'S TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT THAT THERE MAY BE INTERIM PERIODS WHERE THERE WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN THE CURRENT NUMBER OF CARS WE HAVE. I DON'T KNOW. >> THERE'S NOT, UNLESS YOU WANTED TO MAKE A WHOLE MESS OF PARKING, WHICH I DON'T THINK WE DO, BECAUSE IT'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF ASSHOLE WE DON'T ACTUALLY WANT. IF THAT IS BECOMING AN ISSUE, THEN THE WAY THAT I WOULD COME BACK AND RECOMMEND WE DEAL WITH THAT IS OPERATIONALLY, WE LIMIT HOW WE ALLOW THINGS TO BE SCHEDULED. WE WORK WITH OUR PARTNERS WHO WOULD BE THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE HAVING THESE EVENTS AND SAY, HEY, T-BALL, YOU CAN'T HAVE BACK-TO-BACK EVENTS BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING TONS OF PROBLEMS WITH VEHICLES. >> HOW MUCH ARE WE DOING RIGHT NOW ALONG THOSE LINES TO BE THE INTERMEDIARY, IN OTHER WORDS, WITH SOME OF THESE SPORTING ASSOCIATIONS? >> WE HAVEN'T NECESSARILY HERE. WE HAVE AT BETAWOOD, AND NOT NECESSARILY INTERMEDIARY, BUT WE HAVE RULES ABOUT HOW THOSE SPORTS FIELDS, PARTICULARLY THAT BASEBALL FIELD IS ALLOWED TO BE USED AND WHEN IT'S ALLOWED TO BE USED IN AGREEMENT THAT GOES BACK A FEW DECADES WITH THE BASEBALL ASSOCIATION ABOUT DURING WHAT PERIODS OF TIME THEY CAN HAVE ORGANIZED EVENTS THERE VERSUS WHEN IT'S JUST OPEN FOR DROP IN, WHOEVER WANTS TO GO THROW BALL OR SWING A BAT TYPE OF THING. THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THAT, AND AGAIN, MOST LIKELY DO IT OPERATIONALLY. IT HASN'T BEEN A TON OF THAT UNTIL RECENTLY, FOR THE NUMBER OF YEARS, ABOUT FIVE OR SIX YEARS THE T BALL, FOLKS THEY WOULD NOT USE THIS NORTHERN FIELD. LET ME FIND A PICTURES EXPLAINING WHY. THIS NORTHERN FIELD WAS, IN THEIR ESTIMATION, [01:35:02] WAS WAY TOO CLOSE TO WILLOW. IN FACT, WE A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO TOOK THE BENCHES OUT FROM THAT ONE BASELINE BECAUSE THEY WERE SO CLOSE. WE NEED TO REPLACE THE BENCHES EVENTUALLY, BUT TAKE THEM OUT, DON'T PUT THEM BACK. WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO USE THIS FIELD. THEY DIDN'T FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. NOW, THEY HAVE RECENTLY HAD NUMBERS GOING UP FOR PARTICIPATION. THEY STARTED USING IT AGAIN. >> I HAVE A FEW CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT LOOKS LIKE A REMOVAL OF QUITE A FEW TREES. I DO LOVE THAT YOU HAVE MOVED THE BALL FIELDS AWAY FROM WILLOW, BUT THIS SIDEWALK ENCOMPASSING THE WHOLE PARK LOOKS LIKE IT'S TAKING ALL OF OUR OLD TREES OUT ON, I GUESS, EVERY SINGLE SIDE. WE DID A TREE SURVEY TODAY. COUNCIL MEMBER BENSON AND I WERE AT THE PARK FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF TODAY. I GUESS THAT REALLY CONCERNS ME BECAUSE WHAT THOSE TREES HAVE THAT WE CAN'T BUY IS GROWING TIME. THOSE ARE BIG TREES. I KNOW THAT WE MARKED A NUMBER OF ASH TREES THAT ARE DEAD AND THEY HAVE TO COME DOWN, AND IT WOULD BE A REAL SHAME TO LOSE THE HACKBERRY TREE THAT IS IN THE CORNER OF ELM AND HACKBERRY, WHICH IS COOL. I DO AGREE, THERE'S A COUPLE OF MAPLES THAT NEED SOME TENDING. THERE'S SOME OF THE LINDEN TREE ON THE OTHER CORNER. THE MAJORITY OF THE TREES ARE SEVERAL MAPLES, BUT THEY ARE GREAT SIZE. I GUESS THE OTHER THING I HAVE WHICH WOULD FALL INTO THE STANDARDS THAT COUNCIL MEMBER PERSES TALKED ABOUT IS WHEN WE DID VISIT THERE TODAY, THE FOUR PICNIC TABLES WERE ALL ON THE BASKETBALL COURT, WHICH LOCATED WHERE THEY WERE, IF YOU WERE TO HIT A RIM SHOT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE BALL BOUNCING OFF THE PICNIC TABLE, AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO GO CHASING IT DOWN THE SLEDDING HILL. I GUESS I WAS HOPING TO SEE A DESIGNATED AREA WHERE WE COULD PUT THE PICNIC TABLES. I KNOW THAT'S PROBABLY MORE DETAIL, AND I KNOW YOU SAID YOU HAVE MORE DETAILS COME, BUT I DO HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM LOSING, WHICH A NEW PHRASE I HEARD TODAY, ARE GREEN ASSETS, WHICH ARE THE HUGE TREES THAT WE HAVE AROUND THAT PARK. I THINK EVEN WITH THE DESIGN WITH THE PARKING LOT THERE AND STUFF, ALTHOUGH I'D LIKE THE PARKING ON THAT SIDE, THERE'S SIX HUGE TREES THERE THAT THERE WERE WHAT SIX OR SEVEN LITTLE BOYS SELLING LEMONADE [INAUDIBLE]. COUNCIL MEMBER BENSON PAID $2 A CUP FOR US BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THE CHANGE THEY HAD FOR US, BUT IT WAS REALLY CUTE TO SEE THEM ON THEIR BIKES IN THE SHADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. ONE OF THEM DOES PLAY FLAG FOOTBALL AND WAS GETTING EXCITED ABOUT PLAYING AND STUFF, BUT THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I THINK, I GUESS, FOR A NEIGHBORHOOD PARK, I REALLY LIKE THAT THERE'S BIG TREES. I'D LIKE TO SEE US PLANT A FEW MORE. I'D LOVE TO SEE A WILLOW TREE DOWN IN THE MUSHY AREA, WHICH IS WHERE THAT ONE ARROW IS RIGHT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE GREEN FIELDS, WHICH THEY HAD THE FOOTBALL FIELDS ON EACH SIDE OF THAT THE WET PART. THERE WERE JUST A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLAYGROUND. I KNOW I'M GOING INTO MORE DETAIL THAN YOU WANT, BUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLAYGROUND, THERE'S THAT LITTLE GRASSY AREA THAT'S DUG UP AND STUFF, AND I WAS, WOW, THAT'D BE REALLY COOL IF YOU WERE TO LEVEL THAT OUT AND PUT EVEN SOME ASTRO TURF ON IT. THAT'S A GREAT PLACE FOR MOMS OR LITTLE KIDS TO SIT ON A BLANKET OR SOMETHING AND WATCH THE OTHER KIDS PLAY AND STUFF BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW MR. SHAUGHNESSY GETS A MOWER UP THERE, BUT JUST LITTLE TWEAKS AND STUFF LIKE THIS. YES, GO AHEAD. >> TO REASSURE YOU. WHAT I'M TRYING TO PRESENT TO YOU TODAY IS THE LAYOUT. YES, AND THAT'S HOW I WAS TRYING TO PUT THE PREAMBLE, WHEN WE GET TO DETAILED DESIGN, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE A SIDEWALK OR WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE SOME THINGS AROUND BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO SAY, THAT'S A TREE WORTH PRESERVING. LET'S MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT. WE HAVE NOT GONE TO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL. THAT'S WHERE I WANT TO GO. THAT'S WHERE I'M LOOKING TO GET SOME NODS FROM YOU IS THAT WE CAN START DOING THAT THING IS IDENTIFYING THOSE TREES THAT WE CAN PRESERVE AS AN EXAMPLE, AND THAT WILL NECESSITATE SOME TWEAKING OF THIS. WE HAVEN'T STARTED DOWN THAT PATH YET BECAUSE WE'D AGREED THAT WE'D COME BACK WITH THE LAYOUT BECAUSE WE WANTED TO RELOOK THE LAYOUT. I THINK WITH THE LAYOUT THAT WE'RE PROPOSING, THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'RE SAYING IS ABSOLUTELY. YES, I KNOW THERE'S A TREE OVER HERE THAT WE WANT TO PRESERVE, SO WE WON'T PUT A PARKING. WE WOULDN'T PUT PARKING PAVERS THERE BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T TAKE OUT THAT TREE, [01:40:03] SO WE WOULD LEAVE IT, AND IF WE NEED TO WE NEED TO MOVE A SIDEWALK LEFT, RIGHT A LITTLE BIT, GO AROUND AN EXISTING OLD GROWTH TREE THAT'S STILL HEALTHY, WE WOULD DO STUFF LIKE THAT. >> DO WE NEED? I'M SORRY. DO WE NEED A SIDEWALK ALL THE WAY AROUND IT? >> NO, NOT NECESSARILY. WE'RE TRYING TO, AGAIN, MEET THAT PROVIDE. WHEN WE DO COME IN AND DO PARK UPGRADE PROJECTS, WE DO LOOK TO SEE HOW MUCH ADA MOBILITY TYPE STUFF WE CAN WORK IN. THERE'S NOT A REQUIREMENT. THE ADA RULES DON'T REQUIRE US TO MAKE EVERYTHING 100% ADA NEAT, BUT IT DOES TALK ABOUT PROVIDING AS EQUAL ACCESS AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN AS YOU DO THESE.. IT MAY WORK OUT THAT AS WE DO THESE. MAYBE IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE ONLY HAVE THE SIDEWALK COME AROUND THIS WAY SO THAT YOU CAN GET FROM THE PARKING LOT OR TO THE T-BALL FIELDS AND AROUND TO THE PLAYGROUND AND BASKETBALL COURT. [OVERLAPPING] >> I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO SPEAK OVER YOU. HOW SIT AND STONE IS ALL OF THIS? BECAUSE THERE'S PARTS OF IT THAT I THINK ARE GREAT. DO I THINK A SIDEWALK GOING ALL THE WAY AROUND IS NECESSARY? NO. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT LOSING TREES ON THE WILLOW SIDE WITH THAT PARKING LOT. DOES THAT MEAN WE MOVE IT OVER A FEW MORE FEET SO WE SAVE THE TREES? I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, I LIKE WHERE THIS IS GOING, BUT I'M NOT 100% SURE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TAKING OUT AND STUFF. I GUESS I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW MUCH MORE PLANNING IS GOING INTO THIS AND HOW MUCH MORE IT'S GOING TO BE TWEAKED. I KNOW YOU SAID THERE'S A LOT OF DETAIL COMING INTO IT, BUT THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY CONCERN. >> IN THE OVERALL DESIGN PROCESS, WE'RE MAYBE 5%. WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS TO TAKE OUR CONCEPT AND THEN START WORKING SO WE CAN GET TO A 60%, WE CALL IT NORMALLY A 60% DESIGN WHERE WE'VE GOT MOST OF THESE THINGS NOW LAID OUT, AND PART OF GETTING FROM WHERE WE ARE NOW TO THERE IS I'VE GOT TO GET THE SURVEYORS OUT, I'VE GOT TO GET SOME ACTUAL SHOTS ON THE TOPOGRAPHY AND EXACT LOCATIONS OF WHERE DIFFERENT THINGS ARE SO THAT WE CAN START MAKING THOSE DECISIONS OF WHERE TO MOVE. WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR AND WHAT WE WANT THROUGH THIS PROCESS IS, ARE WE HAPPY WITH THIS GENERAL LAYOUT OF THE OVERALL SCHEME OF HOW WE HAVE ALLOCATED THIS, AND GENERALLY, WHAT KIND OF KEY AMENITIES ARE WE LOOKING TO INCLUDE? THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING. WILL THE PARKING LOT BE EXACTLY LAID OUT LIKE THAT? NO, IT'S GOING TO MOVE AROUND, BUT I WOULD ENVISION AT THIS POINT, THERE WILL BE A PARKING LOT SOMEWHERE IN THAT NORTHERN CORNER. I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT'S 28 OR 26 SPOTS NOW. WILL IT BE 24 OR WILL IT BE 30? WE'RE GOING TO PLAY WITH THAT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO A STORMWATER DESIGN, WHICH IS GOING TO DRIVE EXACTLY HOW MANY SQUARE FEET OF STORM POND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO. WE THINK WE'VE SHOWN MORE THAN WE NEED SO THAT AS WE DO THAT, WE CAN MAKE MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS. THE SAME WITH THE TREES. THIS IS NOT A LANDSCAPING PLAN. THIS IS JUST, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO INCLUDE SOME NATURAL PLANTINGS, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO INCREASE SOME MORE SHADE TREES, THAT THING, BUT WE HAVEN'T GONE DOWN THE PATH OF, THIS SPECIES, THIS LOCATION, PROTECT THIS PARTICULAR TREE, DON'T PROTECT THIS TREE, THIS ONE ONLY NEEDS TO BE TRIMMED UP. THAT'S WHERE WE GO NEXT. WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO IS START DOING THAT STUFF, AND SAY NO WAY IN HECK WOULD WE EVER PUT A PARKING LOT THERE, AND WE DON'T WANT TWO T BALL FIELDS, WE ONLY WANT ONE T-BALL FIELD, OR WE WANT NO T-BALL FIELDS. I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING TODAY IS, ARE WE GOOD WITH TWO T-BALL FIELDS, OPEN GREEN SPACE, SOME PARKING, SOME STORMWATER, AND PRESERVING THAT CORNER THAT HAS THE BASKET BALL COURT PLAYGROUND? >> AS A PERSON WHO'S BEEN A USER OF IT, AS A COACH HERE AND ALL THAT, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT LAYOUT. NOW, WHERE THE PARKING, THAT'S HOW IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE ON THAT. FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD NIGHT OUT, TALKING WITH A NUMBER OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, THEIR CONCERN WAS GETTING THOSE FIELDS FACING LIKE THEY ARE. I DON'T THINK IT'S TOO MUCH. TO ME, ONE OF THE KEY THINGS IS THE STORMWATER AND THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE MOVING THAT AND MAKING THESE FIELDS USABLE. THERE'S MANY TIMES I'VE BEEN THERE WHERE WE HAD TO CANCEL. [01:45:05] WE GOT A BEAUTIFUL PARK HERE, AND AS COUNCILMAN PERSIAN HAS TALKED ABOUT, WE WANT OUR PARKS TO BE ABLE TO BE PRESENTABLE AND GREAT PARKS. I THINK THIS LAYOUT, AND AS FAR AS THE TREE STRUCTURE GOES, TREES ARE GREAT, BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT TREES AND PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU TAKE IT DOWN AND THE THING WAS HOLLOW, AND THAT'S JUST WAITING TO FALL ON SOMEBODY. MAKING SURE THE TREES WE KEEP AND TREES TAKEN DOWN ARE HEALTHY, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH A PROJECT RIGHT NOW WHERE PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT TREES TO COME DOWN. IT WAS TAKEN DOWN BASED ON A RECOMMENDATION, AND IT COMES DOWN AND IT WAS COMPLETELY HOLLOW. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO DO. NOTHING AGAINST WILLOW TREES, THEY'RE GREAT, BUT THEY'RE DIRTY AND THEY ALSO, WHEN IT GETS WET FALL AND BREAK IN. [OVERLAPPING]. >> I'VE HAD SOME IN MY AREA. THEY'RE NOT HARDY AT ALL. >> I AIN'T AGAINST TREES, BUT JUST COMMENTING ON THAT, AND THEN IMPROVING THAT EXPERIENCE UP THERE WITH THE BASKETBALL COURT AND GETTING THOSE PICNIC TABLES OUT THERE IN THE RIGHT PLACE, AND ULTIMATELY NEW EQUIPMENT IN THERE DIDN'T MAKE IT AS IT IS. I LIKE IT. FOR THE SIDEWALKS, DO WE NEED TO HAVE IT GO ALL THE WAY AROUND? THAT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE WERE BETTER QUALIFIED THAN ME. I CAN GIVE AN OPINION, BUT I KNOW ADA AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE GRANDPARENTS THERE. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE COME IN THERE TO WATCH GRANDKIDS AND SEE THAT. >> THERE'S NOT A HUGE CURB THERE OR ANYTHING. AS SOMEBODY WHO PUSHED A SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD AROUND UNTIL SECOND GRADE, I LOOKED AT IT PRETTY CAREFULLY WHERE THE PLAYGROUND IS AND STUFF. YOU CAN TAKE A STROLLER OR ANYTHING ALL THE WAY INTO THE PLAY EQUIPMENT AND STUFF [OVERLAPPING] >> THE PLAYGROUNDS NICE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE YOU CAN YOU CAN ACCESS IT FROM THE STREET. >> AND RIGHT TO THE BASKETBALL COURT, I DID CHECK THAT OUT AND STUFF LIKE THAT. IT'S VERY EASY TO GET ALL THE WAY AROUND ON THAT TOP PART WITH WHEELS. >> I GUESS I'LL CHIME IN. I REALLY LIKE THE FACT THAT WE SEEM TO HAVE SOLVED THE MAJOR ISSUES THERE, WHICH ARE PARKING AND AND STORMWATER AND IT DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE HOW THE FIELDS BEEN USED. THAT WAS I THINK THE BIGGER CONCERN THAT WE WERE HEARING FROM THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE BIG BALL FIELDS THAT WERE GOING TO HAVE TEENAGERS COMING IN AND PLAYING AT ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT. IT'S REALLY GEARED TOWARD YOUNGER KIDS AND THERE'S AN OBVIOUS NEED FOR THE TWO T-BALL FIELDS BECAUSE THEY'RE BEING USED THAT WAY NOW. I DID HAVE A MEETING WITH HENNEPIN COUNTY COMMISSIONER EDELSON TODAY AND RAISED THE TOPIC OF, GEE. WE MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR A GRANT, THE $300,000 HENNEPIN COUNTY SPORTS GRANT, AND SHE WAS ALL OVER THAT. SHE SAID, I'LL PARTNER WITH YOU ALL THE WAY ON THAT. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE ONE OF THE ISSUES IS, OF COURSE, COST. THIS IS NOT CHEAP TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS AND SO THE MORE WE CAN LEVERAGE OFF OF GRANTS AND THE ABILITY OF PARTNERS TO HELP RAISE FUNDS IS REALLY KEY. I TOO WOULD LIKE TO SEE US DO IT IN A WAY THAT KEEPS THE HEALTHY MATURE TREES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT IS A REAL RESOURCE, AND IT TAKES A LONG TIME FOR A TREE LIKE THAT TO GROW AND WE WANT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT HOW MUCH WE CUT DOWN. ANYWAY, I THINK IT'S A GREAT IT'S A GREAT PLAN FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. >> JUST TO PUT A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS JUST IN REAL QUICK, COST AND FUNDING. AS FAR AS COST, WE CAME OUT OF THE 2023 SUBMIT ABOUT JUST OVER A $1000,000. WE PUT IN THE 25S CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN AN ESTIMATE OF 895,000. >> THE REASON BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCES IS LOOKING AT WHAT DO WE DO. WE WILL END UP WITH MAYBE A DESIGN WITH SOME THINGS WE HAVE ASPIRATIONS FOR, BUT MAYBE WE DON'T GET THE FUNDING OR MAYBE WE JUST DON'T WANT TO DO CERTAIN ASPECTS OF IT RIGHT UP FRONT. AS AN EXAMPLE, A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID, HEY, WE'D LIKE SOME SHELTER TYPE THING, BUT A SHELTER LIKE THIS IS SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF $100,000. WELL, WE'VE GOT A PLACE FOR IT, [01:50:02] BUT MAYBE THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO DO IN THIS FIRST ROUND. MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO COME DOWN THE ROAD. WE'VE HEARD MAYBE WE WANT COVERED DUGOUTS, MAYBE WE DON'T. MAYBE WE START WITH JUST SOME BENCHES AND THEN IF DOWN THE ROAD, SOMEBODY WANTS SOMETHING MORE SUBSTANTIAL. THAT'S THE REASON. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE IS WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO END UP HAVING TO PHASE THIS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER DEPENDING ON HOW FUNDING COMES IN. THE OTHER THING IS, AS WE DO THIS PROJECT, AND I KNOW I'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, I'D LIKE TO AS A CITY ENGINEER, SAY, LET'S DO THIS PROJECT IN CONJUNCTION WITH LOOKING AT THE AREA AS A WHOLE. THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE PROBABLY NEED TO DO WITH THE STREETS AND WITH THE STORMWATER IN THE AREA, AND THEN TRYING TO WORK THOSE TOGETHER, SO GET SOME ECONOMIES OF SCALE, AND WE'RE NOT CREATING NEW PROBLEMS BY SOLVING THESE PROBLEMS. THEN FUNDING WISE, I WOULD SEE THIS FUNDING COME FROM A NUMBER OF PLACES. FIRST AND FOREMOST OBVIOUSLY, THE PARKS FUND. STORMWATER FUND IS THERE FOR US TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE STORMWATER STUFF. MENTIONED, WE GO AFTER THE HENNEPIN COUNTY GRANT, WHICH WE NEED TO GET OUR APPLICATIONS IN BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER. WE LOOK TO OUR PARTNERS. WE HAVE PARTNERED IN THE PAST. I HAVEN'T HIT THEM UP YET. BUT AS WE GET TO MORE FINAL DESIGN, SAYING OKAY, BASEBALL ASSOCIATION, HOW ABOUT BACKSTOPS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AGAIN, THEY HAVEN'T COMMITTED YET. I WILL SAY THEY HAVE ALWAYS WORKED WITH US IN THE PAST. THEY DID APPROACH ME DURING THIS OPEN HOUSE AND SAY HEY, WE'D LIKE TO BUY YOU AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM FOR BITTERWOOD PARK. THERE'S RESOURCES THERE. LET'S TALK ABOUT OUR PARTNERS. THEN THERE MIGHT BE SOME DONATION OPPORTUNITIES, AND WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH OUR FRIENDS [INAUDIBLE] MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BRING TO BACKS. THEN JUST NEXT STEP. AGAIN, TO PUT THIS IN TIME AND SPACE, WE'RE LOOKING TODAY JUST TO GET A NOD FROM YOU. I DON'T NECESSARILY NEED A FORMAL OR ANYTHING, BUT ARE YOU OKAY THAT I MOVE FORWARD WITH BEGINNING THE DESIGN PROCESS, WHICH, AGAIN, IS STILL AN ITER OF PROCESS, AND WE GOT LOTS OF COMMUNICATING BACK AND FORTH WITH VARIOUS FOLKS AS PART OF THAT. WE GOT TO DO A GRADING PLAN. WE GOT A UTILITY, STORMWATER PLAN. WE HAVE TO DO SURFACE WATER MANAGEMENT PLANNING. WE GOT TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY HOW WE DO, HOW WE LAY OUT THE SPORTS FIELDS. WE GOT TO DO SOME MORE DETAILED COST ESTIMATING THAT COMES WITH THAT AFTER YOU START REFINING THE PROJECTS, AND WE GOT TO START BEGINNING DOWN THE PATH OF OUR PERMITTING PROCESSES. SIMULTANEOUS TO THAT, I WANT TO BEGIN THAT RESOURCING CONVERSATION. YOU MENTIONED THE HA COUNTY GRANT, BUT ENGAGING WITH OUR PARTNERS, ENGAGING WITH THE LEGACY NOW THE FOUNDATION. THAT'S IN THE BLUE THERE. THESE ARE THE NEXT STEPS. THEY WILL TAKE US THE BETTER PART OF THE REMAINDER OF THE YEAR. THEN WE LOOKING TO COME BACK TO FORMALLY WITH A DESIGN AND SCOPE APPROVAL. THAT'S ALSO WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT PHASING DEPENDING ON. WE'VE HEARD, THIS IS THE TREAT. WE GET THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL, BUT ALSO, WE'VE GOT A REFINED COST. WE KNOW WHERE WE ARE IN SOME OF THE GRANTS. BEFORE WE TAKE THIS TO 100% DESIGN AND BEFORE WE GO OUT TO BID, WE COME DO THAT. >> DO YOU KNOW HOW FAR DOWN THE ROAD WE NEED TO BE FOR THE HENNEPIN COUNTY GRANT APPLICATION PROCESS? CAN IT BE JUST CONCEPTUAL DESIGN OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE MUCH FARTHER DOWN THE ROAD? >> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A WORKABLE DESIGN WITH GOOD COST ESTIMATES. >> IT MIGHT NOT BE FEASIBLE FOR THIS FALL. >> I THINK I COULD GET A GOOD ONE IN NOT TO ASK. I WOULD NOT BE INCLUDING EVERYTHING IN THAT GRANT APPLICATION, BUT THOSE THINGS THAT WE KNOW WE WANT TO DO. THE SAME WAY WE WERE ABOUT THE SAME POINT WITH THE BEERWOOD PROJECT. WE STILL HAD TO MAKE SOME TWEAKS. THE FIELD MOVED A LITTLE BIT, THOSE KIND OF THINGS. WHAT YOU CAN'T DO IS YOU CAN'T GO AND ASK FOR THE GRANT AND CHANGE THE COMPLETE SCOPE, SAY, "HEY, I WANT A BASEBALL FIELD, AND THEN YOU BUILD A ON FIELD." YOU'VE GOT TO BE CLOSE. THE FURTHER ALONG YOU ARE, THERE YOU ARE. >> YOU HAD A COMMISSIONER THAT WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING. >> CARS 261 SIGNET AND ON THE PARK COMMISSION. I HAVE A QUESTION ON PROCESS, BECAUSE WE JUST ASKED FOR THE SEPARATE MEETING ON THE NINTH. WE HAVE A WORK SESSION THAT WE WANT TO HASH OUT SOME GUIDING PRINCIPLES, HOW WE WORK TOGETHER. BUT WE HAVE A PROPER PARK COMMISSION MEETING AT SIX WITH HACKBERRY ON THE AGENDA. I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE ASKING OF THE COUNCIL, AND THEN WHAT YOU'LL ASK OF US AS A COMMISSION. I'M LOOKING TO UNDERSTAND PROCESS. >> WHAT WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR FROM THE PARKS COMMISSION IS SOME MORE FEEDBACK SO WE CAN KEEP REFINING WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON. [01:55:02] IF THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT INDIVIDUAL PARKS COMMISSIONERS, [OVERLAPPING] SAY AGAIN? >> I THINK THAT'S A WORK SESSION TOPIC. WE CLEARLY HAVE A WORK SESSION AND WE HAVE A PARK COMMISSION MEET. >> I'D BE PRESENTING THE SAME THING TO YOU AGAIN AS I'M HERE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. >> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ASK US TO VOTE ON IT ON THE NINTH? >> NO, I'M LOOKING FOR THE CITY COUNCIL TO VOTE ON IT. WE'RE LOOKING FOR INPUT FROM THE PARKS COMMISSION. >> OH, THANK YOU. >> I HAD THE SAME QUESTION, KNOWING THAT WE ARE OR WE ALREADY DID JUST APPROVE A SPECIAL MEETING FOR THE PARK COMMISSION. MY QUESTION THAT VERY QUESTION, WHICH IS, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE LOOKING FOR INPUT FROM US, BUT TYPICALLY WE LOOK FOR PARK COMMISSION INPUT ON SOMETHING PRIOR TO COMING TO COUNCIL. IT'S NOT LIKE WE CAN'T BE DOING CERTAIN THINGS IN TANDEM, BUT I VALUE AND THE PARK COMMISSION OR AT LEAST THE SUBCOMMITTEE IS THE ONES WHO'VE BEEN DOING MOST OF THE COMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION GATHERING AROUND THE PROJECT. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL. THAT WILL BE HELPFUL TO HEAR I GUESS, AT OUR NEXT MEETING, BUT WE'RE WE'RE BEING ASKED TO APPROVE A GRANT APPLICATION IN MID SEPTEMBER? >> YES. >> WE WILL NOT HEAR FROM THE PARK COMMISSION PRIOR TO THAT? >> YOU DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT BEFORE I WOULD BRING BACK A GRANT APPLICATION TO YOU. I I BELIEVE THOSE GRANTS NEED A RESOLUTION FROM THE COUNCIL, SO. >> THEY DO. I WANT TO GO BACK FOR JUST A MINUTE TO THE LANGUAGE THAT WE USED BACK IN 2023, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS, I THINK IT'S VERY EASY TO GET INTO THE TREES AND THE LAYOUT AND EVERYTHING, I COME TO THIS HAVING SAT THROUGH, THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION IN 2023, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT A VERY DIFFERENT DESIGN NOW, WHICH IS FINE. IT IS WHAT IT IS. BUT I'M GOING BACK TO 2023, WE HAD THE INTENT OF THE PROJECT WAS TO PROVIDE A FACILITY TO SUPPORT YOUTH SPORTS EFFORTS IN THE AREA. MY QUESTION NOW, IS THAT STILL THE SAME GOAL THAT WE HAVE AS A CITY IS TO PROVIDE A FACILITY FOR YOUTH SPORTS GRANTS? WHAT ARE WE REQUIRED TO WRITE IN THIS GRANT APPLICATION? ARE WE GOING TO BE IN HARMONY WITH THE INTENTION OF THIS PROJECT, MEANING THAT WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO INCREASE USE? I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ASKING OF THE COUNTY IN THIS APPLICATION, KNOWING THAT AT LEAST WHERE I'M COMING FROM THE SPIRIT OF THIS REVAMP IS NOT TO INCREASE OR TO BE TRYING TO DRAW NEW USE NECESSARILY TO CREATE HEAVIER USE OR OVERLAP IN THE FUTURE. >> I DON'T THINK WE'D BE ASKING FOR WE'RE TRYING TO INCREASE YOUTH SPORT. WHEN YOU APPLY FOR A YOUTH SPORTS GRANT, ONE OF THE CRITERIA THAT THE COUNTY WILL BE LOOKING AT IS, ARE WE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH OUR YOUTH SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS AT THE VERY LEAST, GIVE US A LETTER OF SUPPORT SAYING, YES, I HAVE THIS MANY YOUTH THAT I SERVE AND THIS AMENITY THAT THE CITY IS LOOKING TO DO, HELP SUPPORT WHAT OUR MISSION IS AND ALL THAT THING. IN SOME CASES, THEY WILL ALSO OFFER, LIKE THE BASEBALL ASSOCIATION HAS DONE WITH US IN THE PAST. THEY HAVE OFFERED TO PARTNER WITH US ON PAYING FOR SOME OF THOSE EXPENSES. WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IN THE GRANT IS JUST THAT, HEY, WE ARE MAKING IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR PARK THAT HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT ON YOUTH SPORTS IN OUR COMMUNITY, AMONG OTHER THINGS. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A NEXUS BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE DOING AND YOUTH SPORTS. I PROVIDE THEM THAT NEXUS, THAT REALLY HASN'T CHANGED MAYBE THE PRECISE WORDING THAT WE WERE USING THEN, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT IMPROVING THIS PARK FOR THE T BALL FOLKS TO BE ABLE TO USE AND THE FIELD SPORTS PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO USE AT THE SAME TIME, PRESERVING THESE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE PARK. WHEN I WRITE THE GRANT FOR THE COUNTY, WILL I BE EMPHASIZING THE YOUTH SPORTS PORTIONS OF IT? ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO GET THEM TO SAY. YES. >> NO, THAT'S UNDERSTOOD. I THINK THEY'RE LIKELY, AND I'LL JUST MAYBE SAY WHAT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS THERE TRUST ISSUES THAT WE HAVE HERE. THAT IS WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY WITH REGARD TO THIS PROJECT, IS THAT PERHAPS BASED ON PAST DECISIONS OR PAST PROCESSES. THE QUESTION CAME AGAIN TONIGHT, WHAT IS THE PROCESS? WE HAVE A NEW PARK COMMISSION OR FACILITIES AND PARKS DIRECTOR. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS ALSO WITH A NEW COUNCIL TOGETHER. I THINK IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE THAT COMMISSIONER EDELSON WOULD WANT TO SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF AN EFFORT IN OUR CITY, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE THAT WE WOULD WANT TO RETAIN DOLLARS FOR A MAJOR PROJECT LIKE THIS. [02:00:02] I THINK PART OF THE DIFFICULTY IN THIS DESIGN IS UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE REALLY ON THE SAME PAGE, AND THAT WE'RE REALLY UNCOVERING ALL INFORMATION, ALL CONCERNS, WHICH WE HEARD MAYBE A LITTLE BIT AGAIN TONIGHT ABOUT THE PROCESS WITH OUR PARK COMMISSION, SO THAT WE'RE GOING INTO THIS EYES WIDE OPEN ABOUT WHAT IT IS WE ARE TRYING TO DESIGN FOR, AND WHAT IT IS WE'RE PROMISING OR WHAT EXPECTATIONS WE ARE SETTING WITH THESE YOUTH SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS? BECAUSE I'VE NOT BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH ANY OF THEM. I'M GOING OFF OF THE WORDS AND THE REPORTS THAT WE'RE HEARING FROM THE PARK COMMISSIONER FROM STAFF. ARE WE GOING TO BE GOOD PROMISING WHATEVER IT IS WE ARE TO THESE SPORTS ASSOCIATIONS ABOUT THE USE THAT CAN OCCUR AT THIS PARK WITH THIS DESIGN? >> YES, IF WE MAKE A PROMISE TO ONE OF THESE GROUPS, AND THEN I DON'T EVER OBVIOUSLY WE'RE STRAINING OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE ENGAGE WITH THEM AND TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS AS WE MOVE FORWARD, AND EXACTLY WHY I'LL REACH OUT TO THE VARIOUS ONES AND SAY, "HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PLANNING TO DO. I'D LIKE TO GET A LETTER OF RECOMMENDATION FOR YOU, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST." THEN IN THOSE PAST INSTANCES, WHEN THEY'VE DONE THAT, WE'VE DONE WHAT WE'VE AGREED WITH THEM. MOST RECENTLY, WE DID WITH BASEBALL ASSOCIATION ON SOME EQUIPMENT GRANTS. MAYBE TWO YEARS AGO, WHERE WE PARTNERED WITH THEM ON GRANT APPLICATIONS AND GOT THEM THROUGH THAT PROCESS AND GOT THE MONEY AND THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR DEPARTMENT WITH US. I THINK WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD TRACK RECORD OF TRYING TO WORK WITH OUR PARTNER. >> I'LL GIVE YOU MY THOUGHTS IN THE DESIGN. I THINK IT'S FROM WHAT I HEARD AT THE OPEN HOUSE AND FROM WHAT I SEE HERE. I THINK THAT RETAINING THE TWO T-BALL FIELDS SEEMS TO BE WHAT'S DESIRED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SOME FORMATION OF OPEN SPACE FOR YOUTH THOSE MULTI SPORT ASSOCIATIONS, THAT NORTHWEST CORNER IS ONE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS A LAYOUT WHERE A SPORT FIELD THAT'S BRINGING THAT HEAVIER USE TO THE WEST SIDE OF THE PARK, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IS NOT DESIRABLE. >> THAT PROBABLY WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE. >> SO IN OTHER WORDS, KEEPING THAT HEAVY USE OR HEAVIER USE TO THE EAST SIDE. AND THEN ALSO BEING MINDFUL THAT THE SURVEY AND FROM WHAT WE ARE HEARING FROM RESIDENTS IS THAT THIS IS AS MUCH OF A PLAYGROUND, PASSIVE USE PARK AS IT IS SPORTS ASSOCIATIONS. THAT'S AT LEAST WHAT THE PIE GRAPH, AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE SHOWING IS THAT JUST AS MANY PEOPLE GO TO THIS PARK TO UTILIZE THE PLAY EQUIPMENT AND TO JUST EITHER SIT OR USE THE BASKETBALL COURT AS DO THOSE SCHEDULED SPORTING ACTIVITIES. SO MY QUESTIONS ARE ALSO ABOUT GRADING, AND I THINK PART OF THE CHARACTER OF THAT PORK PARK IS THE SLOPING HILLS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE CREATED OVER TIME. MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT COMPLETELY OR SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERING THE LANDSCAPE, IN TERMS OF GRADING, IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD RATHER NOT SEE IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO GET THAT HEAVIER USE ON THE EAST SIDE, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOING TO POTENTIALLY REALLY LEVEL SOME OF THE CHARACTER THAT WE'VE SEEN AND THAT THE RESIDENTS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THE PARK HAVE COME TO EXPECT. I'LL LEAVE IT THERE. >> THAT'S PART OF THE GOOD REASON OF MOVING AWAY ON THESE BALL FIELDS IS BECAUSE OF PUTTING THEM UP IN THIS CORNER, IS IF WE DID PUT THEM UP IN THAT CORNER, TO MAKE THEM FIT, WE'D HAVE TO BUILD RETAINING WALLS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH WE DON'T WANT TO DO FROM A AESTHETIC POINT OF VIEW. WE DON'T WANT TO DO FROM A SAFETY POINT OF VIEW. WE DON'T WANT TO DO FROM A MAINTENANCE POINT OF VIEW. AND MOST OF ALL, WE DON'T WANT TO DO FROM A COST POINT OF VIEW, BECAUSE IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY TO DO THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WILL WE ALTER THE GRADES? YES, WE'LL HAVE TO ALTER THE GRADES TO GET THE DRAINAGE TO WORK. AND WE'LL HAVE TO BORROW SOME MATERIAL ON THE SITE TO MAKE THOSE THINGS HAPPEN. BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING SOME SLOPES FROM LIKE THIS TO LIKE THIS. AGAIN, THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK OUT AND THE DETAILED DESIGN I NEED TO GET THE SURVEY IN AND THEN START COMING UP WITH PROFILES THAT WILL WORK. >> I WILL SAY, I THINK IT WOULD BE QUITE HELPFUL IF THE FOLKS AND I'VE ONLY MET ONE OF THEM SO FAR, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TALKED TO THEM. IF THE SPORTING ASSOCIATION HEADS WOULD BE ABLE TO ATTEND THIS UPCOMING PARK COMMISSION MEETING AND/OR COUNCIL MEETING, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE INVESTED IN THIS FUTURE. BECAUSE MY PERSPECTIVE IS IF WE'RE GOING ABOUT THIS TYPE OF WORK AND THIS DETAILED TYPE OF PLANNING, BE VERY BENEFICIAL TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THE FOLKS WHO ARE INVOLVED. [02:05:03] >> THERE'S BEEN A LOT TALKED ABOUT, SO I'M NOT SURE THERE'S TOO MUCH TO ADD. I THINK THAT THE PROCESS THAT HAS UNFOLDED OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS PROBABLY LANDED ON THIS PROJECT. I LIKE THE LOCATION OF THE FIELDS. I LIKE THE LOCATION OF THE PARKING BECAUSE I THINK IT'S BEST TO MOVE TO THE EAST SIDE, THE RETAINING. I PERSONALLY, I DO RECOMMEND PROCEEDING WITH DESIGN CONCEPTS, GETTING TO THAT NEXT PHASE, AND SEEING WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, GIVEN ALL THE CONVERSATIONS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE HERE, PRESERVING TREES AND WHATNOT, SO. >> JUST ON THAT PROCESS QUESTION, TOO, I JUST WANT TO REITERATE THIS IS NOT A ONE-AND-DONE. THIS IS A DESIGN. WE'VE GOT A DESIGN COMMITTEE THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO ENGAGE WITH AT DIFFERENT STAGES IN THIS DESIGN TO CHECK IN AND SAY, ARE WE STILL TRACKING WITH WHAT YOU'RE THINKING, AS WELL AS BRING SOME STUFF BACK TO THE COUNCIL AS WE GET APPROPRIATE FOR LONG TO SAY. WE WERE ABLE TO DO EVERYTHING WE SHOWED IN THAT PLAN, OR WE'RE NOT, AND THIS IS WHY. >> YOU'LL BE BACK AGAIN THE 22ND, OF SEPTEMBER AFTER YOU'VE HAD A MEETING WITH THE PARKS COMMISSION? >> WELL, YES, ONE OF THE TWO COUNCIL MEETINGS IN SEPTEMBER, I'LL HAVE TO COME TO [OVERLAPPING]. >> WELL, THE OTHER ONES THE EIGHTH. IN YOUR MEETINGS THAT THE NINTH. >> THEN 22ND. >> 22ND. >> JANIE, YOU'VE BEEN RAISING YOUR HAND. >> JANIE DELANEY, PARKS COMMISSION, 1315 WOODHILL. I KEEP GOING BACK TO THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A BIG ISSUE, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET ALL THESE ASSOCIATIONS IN THE SAME ROOM BEFORE THE PARKS COMMISSION. BECAUSE WHEN I TALKED TO THE SOCCER ASSOCIATION, ADAM, THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED THERE, NOR HAS LACROSSE, SINCE 2022. THEY'RE NOT USING THOSE FIELDS. THAT'S A MISNOMER THAT THEY ARE. IF YOU'RE GOING TO BRING THAT ACTIVITY BACK IN, THE REASON LACROSSE SAID THEY DIDN'T PLAY THERE IS BECAUSE FLAG FOOTBALL MARKS OUT THE FIELD. THERE'S NO PLACE FOR THEM TO PUT THEIR FIELDS. THEN IN THE CASE OF THE SOCCER, THEY WOULD PROBABLY MAYBE ONLY USE IT OCCASIONALLY FOR PRACTICE. THEY JUST BOUGHT THE DOME. THEIR SEASONS ALL OVERLAP WITH EACH OTHER. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A GOOD PICTURE OF FIELD USAGE THERE AND ACTIVITY, AND CAR COUNT AND ALL OF THAT, WHICH IS GOING TO BE HUGE TO SEE IF THIS PLAN WORKS AT ALL. I TOO LIKE THE PLAN, THE WAY IT'S HEADED, BUT I THINK THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE USAGE PIECE. THANKS. >> THANK YOU. JANIE, JUST TO ANSWER THAT, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SIMILAR USAGE TO WHAT IT HAS BEEN. FLAG FOOTBALL, USING IT, LIKE THEY'RE USING IT, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TEE BALL USING IT LIKE THEY HAVE. IT'S WORKED REALLY WELL. ALL ITS BEEN DOING IS PROVIDING BETTER FACILITIES FOR HIM, A BETTER PARK, AND GETTING THE GRADING DOWN, GETTING THAT DRAINS STORAGE. THEN ALSO PROVIDING A NICER PARK FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, TOO AND ENJOYMENT ON THAT. BUT I THINK TO YOUR POINT, I'M ON THE CROSSBOARD. I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T GO OVER THERE BECAUSE YOU'RE LOSING BALLS. IT'S AND SEASONS CROSS, AND ON THAT SOCCER, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR, BUT I KNOW, IT IS WHAT IT IS, AND WE'D PROBABLY USE IT IN LACROSSE IF WE NEEDED AN EXTRA PLACE, AND IT WAS AN OPENING. BUT, YOU'RE PLAYING LACROSSE AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE PLAYING TEE BALL. UNLESS THERE'S A DIFFERENT NIGHT ON THAT. BUT NOT OUR U-SIXTHS OR U-EIGHTHS WHO WOULD USE THAT. AGAIN, IMPORTANT TO IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW IT'S BEING USED TODAY. WE'VE BEEN ENGAGING WITH THESE GROUPS ABOUT THAT. WHAT DO YOU NEED? IF WE'RE UPDATING THIS PARK. WHAT CAN WE INCORPORATE INTO THIS THAT WOULD MEET YOUR NEEDS IF YOU NEEDED FROM ACROSS FENCING. YOU CAN'T HAVE STRAIGHT BALLS. SOCCER SAID, WE NEED MORE PRACTICE SPACE AND WE WOULD USE IT IF IT WAS AVAILABLE. AGAIN, I JUST GO BACK TO OPERATIONALLY. IT'S VERY EASY TO MANAGE THE USAGE WITH OUR OPERATIONS. WE HAVE FIELD RESERVATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THE WAY WE HAVE IT SET UP. IF SOMEBODY'S USING ONE OF THE T-BALL FIELDS, YOU CANNOT USE THE OPEN ESSENCE, THE OUT FIELDS FOR FIELD SUPPORT. YOU CAN'T USE IT FOR [02:10:01] THREE DIFFERENT THINGS AT ONCE BECAUSE IT JUST PHYSICALLY DOES NOT ALLOW FOR THAT. THAT AGAIN, EASILY MANAGED IN THE OPERATIONS. WE CAN KEEP WORKING, SO. >> I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY YOU'VE GOT THE HEAD NOD TO GO FORTH, AND WE AREN'T GOING TO TAKE ANY SORT OF OFFICIAL ACTION ON TONIGHT. >> [INAUDIBLE] REQUEST A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. >> THAT'S GREAT. IT IS 10 MINUTES AFTER 8:00. WE'LL BE BACK AT 8:15. WE ARE BACK IN. IT'S 8:15. THANK YOU FOR THE BREAK. NEXT ITEM IS ITEM 12, ANNUAL APPOINTMENT UPDATES. [12. Annual Appointment Updates (Park Commission, LID Liaisons) - Resolution 7614] >> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING, TWO ITEMS WERE BROUGHT UP AND ADDED TO THE AGENDA THAT HAVE POTENTIAL IMPACTS TO THE CITY'S ANNUAL APPOINTMENTS. THE FIRST BEING THE DESIRE TO EXPLORE THE IDEA OF HAVING COUNCIL LIAISONS TO THE LAKE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS, OF WHICH WE HAVE TWO, THE CARMEN'S BAY AND THE STUBBS BAY LIDS. ON THAT ONE, AS DIRECTED, I DID REACH OUT TO THE CHAIRPERSONS OF EACH LID. THEY DID EXPRESS A WILLINGNESS TO ENTERTAIN THAT IDEA. THEY WILL NEED TO TAKE SOMETHING TO THEIR BOARD'S FORMAL APPROVAL, WHICH CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WILL GIVE ME SOME DRAFT RESOLUTION LANGUAGE THAT I CAN GIVE TO THEM. I TOLD THEM I WOULD HELP THEM WITH THAT. HOWEVER, IN THE MEANTIME, I'M RECOMMENDING THAT IF IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS GOING TO MOVE FORWARD, WE MIGHT AS WELL GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF ESTABLISHING WHO THOSE LIAISONS ARE, WHICH WE DO THROUGH AN AMENDMENT TO THE ANNUAL APPOINTMENTS, WHICH IS THE RESOLUTION ATTACHED. THE SECOND ITEM THAT IMPACTS ANNUAL APPOINTMENTS WAS DISCUSSION IN THE PARKS COMMISSION CHAIR. IN PARTICULAR, WE LEFT THE MEETING WITH THE QUESTION OF WHAT'S THE CITY CODE SAY ABOUT APPOINTING AND EVEN IN SOME CASES, REMOVING APPOINTED OFFICIALS. I DID ADD THE CODE AS EXHIBIT TO THE ITEM, AND OUR CODE IS PRETTY SIMPLE. IT JUST REQUIRES SIMPLE MAJORITY FOR EITHER APPOINTMENT OR REMOVAL. STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT WE DO APPOINT SOME LID LIAISONS THIS EVENING. HOWEVER, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS WITH RESPECT TO THE PARKS COMMISSION CHAIR, THAT WE WOULD JUST DO THAT AS PART OF PART OF THE NORMAL ANNUAL PROCESS. SUBJECT TO YOUR QUESTIONS. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. >> ADDRESSING THE FIRST ISSUE, ARE THERE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT WOULD DESIRE TO SERVE AS A LIAISON WITH THE LIDS? START THERE. >> I DO. >> OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE? >> I DO AS WELL. >> DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE? WE HAVE TWO. ANY ANYBODY ELSE? >> I'M GOOD. I THINK I THINK YOU GUYS WOULD BE WOULD BE GREAT FOR THAT ROLE. I GUESS, GIVEN WE HAVE TWO LIDS, AND I SUSPECT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE OTHER BAYS THAT WILL BE APPROACHING US. IF YOU'RE NOT APPOINTED TO THE LIAISON POSITION FOR ONE OF THESE FIRST TWO AND HAVE A DESIRE TO DO THAT, I HAVE A FEELING THAT THERE MAY BE SOME MORE OPPORTUNITY TO THAT. IN FACT, WE SHOULD BE, I THINK, INCLUDING THE CONDITION THAT WE HAVE A LIAISON AS THEY APPROACH US AS NEW BAYS APPROACH US. I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO HAVE ANYTHING IN PLACE AHEAD OF TIME OR IF THAT'S JUST A CONDITION WE IMPOSE. I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO, BUT I THINK IT HELPS WHEN WE'RE APPROACHED BY LID, HEY TO WHATEVER WE NEED., IN THE PAST, THERE'S BEEN, HEY, WE WANT X PERCENTAGE TO VOTE ON IT. HEY WERE EXPECT A LIAISON. WHEN THEY DRAFT THEIR BYLAWS, THAT'S JUST IN THERE. >> GREAT. WE HAVE TWO LIDS. DO EITHER ONE OF YOU HAVE A STRONG PREFERENCE AS TO WHICH ONE YOU SERVICE LIAISON TO? >> I CAN DO STUBS, BECAUSE I BELIEVE ADAM, IS IT TRUE THAT THEY'RE MEETING THIS WEEK? >> I DON'T KNOW. WEDNESDAY NIGHT. I SENT IN THAT EMAIL, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF TOP. I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I'M AVAILABLE THAT NIGHT, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER RICK IS CAPABLE TO GO TO THAT MEETING. BY DEFAULT, I'LL DO STUBBS. >> I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION FROM THE COUNSEL APPOINT MS. BENSON TO THE LIAISON TO THE STUBBS BAY LID, AND MS. RICK TO THE CARMAN BAY LID. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO DO? >> YEAH, I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION. >> I'LL SECOND HIM. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? >> NO. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL THOSE OPPOSED, SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES. [02:15:04] VISAVEE PARKS COMMISSION CHAIR. THOUGHTS FROM COUNCIL. >> I SEE WHERE ADAM IS COMING FROM TO LEAVE IT. THE POSITION CHANGED THE NEW YEAR. I GUESS, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED WITH THE NEW INFORMATION THAT MR. NIGER BROUGHT US. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY IS DEALING WITH THAT. I MYSELF JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT. I WOULD HATE FOR THEM TO LOSE CONFIDENCE IN US AS WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD. IT PUTS US IN A AWKWARD POSITION, I THINK. I DON'T KNOW. DOES ANYBODY HAVE DIRECT INFORMATION ON WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT? >> MR. ROTH AS A RESIDENT AND LANDOWNER IN OUR COMMUNITY HAS, AND AFTER THE FACT, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT COMING BEFORE THE CITY WAS MOST RECENTLY HEARD AT THE PARKS COMMISSION MEETING, AND IT WILL BE MAKING ITS WAY THROUGH THAT PROCESS. SORRY. >> IT'S A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND VARIANCES FOR AFTER THE FACT IMPROVEMENTS THEY APPLIED FOR. THAT WENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION THIS LAST MONTH, IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE COMMISSION TO GET AN UPDATE ON THAT. PLAN COMMISSION DID TABLE IT AND ASKED FOR AN AMENDED PLAN THAT SOMETHING THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK WITH, WILL SEE IF SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION CAN COME FORWARD. THAT WILL GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION IN SEPTEMBER. YOU WON'T SEE IF ANYTHING COMES FORWARD, YOU GUYS WOULD SEE IT AFTER THAT. BUT THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION REGARDING AMENDED PLANS FOR AFTER THE FACT IMPROVEMENTS. >> WELL, I'LL JUST SAY THAT I'M GLAD WE HAVE A FULL COUNCIL TONIGHT BECAUSE I DO THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS ONE THAT BENEFITS FROM ALL FIVE PERSPECTIVES. MY POSITION HASN'T CHANGED BASED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND IT'S GROUNDED IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE. WITHOUT GOING INTO GREAT DETAIL, I HAVE MET WITH THE CHAIR IN THE PAST, AND I DO HAVE ONGOING CONCERNS ABOUT, A LACK OF ALIGNMENT IN TERMS OF THE UNDERSTANDING AND ADHERENCE TO THE ADVISORY ROLE OF THE COMMISSION AS WELL AS SCHEDULING ISSUES, CALENDAR ISSUES. I DO BELIEVE THAT OUR CITY WOULD BENEFIT FROM DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP ON THAT ADVISORY BOARD, AND THAT'S WHAT I'LL SAY ABOUT IT. I THINK I EXPRESSED MYSELF AT THE LAST MEETING ALREADY. >> I'M ALIGNED WITH ADAM AND JUST SAYING, LET HIM CARRY OUT HIS TERM ON THIS. THAT'S HOW I FEEL ON IT. YOU HAVE THOUGHTS? >> MY POSITION IS, FIRST OF ALL, I TEND TO SEPARATE AN ISSUE THAT'S COMING THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION INDEPENDENT OF WHAT'S TAKING PLACE WITH THE PARKS COMMISSION. I ALSO THINK THAT I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WATCH COMMISSIONER ROTH GO THROUGH A PROCESS OF WORKING THROUGH SEVERAL DIFFERENT PROJECTS THAT HAD SUBSEQUENTLY BEEN SLOW DOWN. HE AND I HAVE ALSO TAKEN SOME TIME TO TALK A LITTLE BIT OR STOPPED TOGETHER, BUT HE AND I HAVE TAKEN SOME TIME TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT PARK STANDARDS. IN MY DISCUSSION WITH BRIAN, HE SEEMED TO REALLY GRASP THE APPROACH THAT HE FELT WAS A GO FORWARD PLAN, AND IT'S BEEN GETTING USED TO NEW PARK COMMISSIONERS AND NEW COUNCIL MEMBERS AS A WHOLE. MY SENSE AND BASED UPON WHERE THINGS ARE AT RIGHT NOW WITH SOME OF THE THINGS GOING ON IN THE PARKS IS THAT IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE JUST AS EFFECTIVE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE PARK COMMISSION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, AS WELL. >> I ALSO AGREE WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO HOLD OFF, PARTICULARLY SINCE I THINK THERE'S A SUBSET OF THE PARKS COMMISSION THAT IS WORKING ON GUIDING PRINCIPLES THAT WOULD THEN COME BACK TO US. IF WE'RE NOT IN ALIGNMENT, WE'RE NOT IN ALIGNMENT. BUT IF WE'RE IN ALIGNMENT, [02:20:01] I THINK WE NEED TO SEE THAT PROCESS THROUGH AND TO MAKE ANY CHANGES IF CHANGES ARE TO BE MADE IN THE NORMAL CALENDAR PROCESS, WHICH WOULD BE THE FIRST OF THE YEAR. I WOULD NOT BE IN FAVOR OF MAKING A CHANGE AT THIS POINT. ANYWAY, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION ON THIS IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO MOVE FORWARD, BUT IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE FORWARD TO TAKE ACTION, YOU CAN CERTAINLY FEEL FREE TO MAKE THAT MOTION. >> DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION? >> NO. WELL, IF THAT REALLY IS TO DO IT AT THE END OF TO REAPPOINT AT THE YEAR, THERE'S NO MOTION NECESSARY HERE. IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE SOMETHING ELSE DECIDED, THEN, YES. >> HEARING NO MOTION, WE WILL MOVE ON TO PROCUREMENT OF SELF [13. Procurement of Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA)] CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS WHICH IS A PURCHASE NEEDED FOR THE NEW FIRE DEPARTMENT. >> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, I'M SWITCHING GEARS FROM PARKS AND APPOINTMENTS ONTO FIRE EQUIPMENT AND OUR TRANSITION TO A NEW FIRE DEPARTMENT. AS WE CONTINUE TO WORK FORWARD INTO COMBINING OUR TWO DEPARTMENTS INTO ONE, PART OF THAT PROCESS IS LOOKING AT THE EQUIPMENT THAT FIREFIGHTERS USE AND ENSURING THAT WHERE COMMONALITY IS NEEDED, WE CAN ACHIEVE IT. ONE PLACE THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED THAT THERE IS A NEED IS WITH THE SELF CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS. THAT'S A SEA EQUIPMENT, OBVIOUSLY A FACE PIECE REGULATOR AND PROVIDES BREATHABLE AIR TO THE FIREFIGHTERS WHILE THEY CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS. TO GET EVERYBODY ALIGNED, THE CHIEFS HAVE LOOKED AT THIS WITH THEIR STAFFS AND THE BEST WAY OR THE MOST THE BEST WAY FORWARD IS TO TRANSITION THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S SDBA EQUIPMENT TO BE COMPATIBLE TO WHAT THE ONO FIRE DEPARTMENT CURRENTLY HAS. THE REASON WE'RE BRINGING THIS TO YOU NOW PRIOR TO THE SIGNING OF THE JPA IS THAT THERE IS A HUGE PRICE INCREASE THAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN IN SEPTEMBER WITH THIS PARTICULAR EQUIPMENT. THEREFORE, THE DEPARTMENTS BROUGHT THIS BOARD AT THE LAST FIRE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT FIRE ADVISORY BOARD. BOTH CITIES REPRESENTATIVES AT THAT TIME SAID THAT WE THOUGHT MAYBE THIS WAS SOMETHING WE WOULD WANT TO BRING BACK TO EACH OF OUR COUNCILS FOR APPROVAL. LONG LAKE DID CONSIDER THIS AT THEIR LAST MEETING AND DID GRANT APPROVAL TO MOVE FORWARD. TONIGHT, WE'RE ASKING FOR THE ONO COUNCIL TO DO THE SAME. THE COST OF THIS EQUIPMENT WILL BE SPLIT BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES OF LONG LAKE AND ONO. WE'RE STILL BETWEEN THE TWO ADMINISTRATORS STILL TRYING TO WORK OUT EXACTLY WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE IS, BUT IT IS SOMEWHERE IN THE MID 85 - 86% COST TO ONO, REMAINDER TO LONG LAKE. THE REASON WE'RE STILL PLAYING WITH THE NUMBERS IS, BECAUSE OF MEDINA'S PARTICIPATION OR NOT PARTICIPATION CHANGES HOW OUR COST SHARING FORMULA WORKS. BUT IT'S IN THAT RANGE. I PUT IN THE COUNCIL ACTION THAT THE PROJECTED EXPENSE TO ONO WILL BE ABOUT $54,500 AFTER TURN IN AND CREDITS FOR THE EXISTING EQUIPMENT AS IT'S TURNED IN. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS A MOTION TO AUTHORIZE THE EXPENDITURE UP TO $54,500 FOR THE PROCUREMENT OF SCBA EQUIPMENT. THERE'S A LISTING AS AN EXAMPLE QUOTE IN YOUR PACKET. >> ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? >> PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. >> I MOVED TO AUTHORIZE THE EXPENDITURE OF UP TO 54,000 FOR THE PROCUREMENT OF THE SCBA EQUIPMENT AS LISTED. >> I'LL SECOND, 4,500. >> WHAT DID I SAY? >> FIFTY FOUR THOUSAND. >> FIVE HUNDRED. I'LL THROW THAT EXTRA FIVE. >> I'LL SECOND BOTH OF THEM ANY TIME WE HAVE A DISCUSSION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL THOSE OPPOSED SAME TIME. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. MR. PERSIAN, YOU ADDED ANOTHER ITEM ON FIRE DEPARTMENT. >> I JUST ALSO, I WANTED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE GROUP ABOUT EXPENSES OR PURCHASES THAT ARE BEING MADE OR BEING THOUGHT ABOUT BEING MADE IN THE NEAR FUTURE AS WE TRANSITION TO WHAT LOOKS TO BE A NEW FIRE DEPARTMENT WITH A NEW NAME. I THINK WE NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL OF THE EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH [02:25:02] ANY EQUIPMENT THAT'S CURRENTLY IN THE FLEET, OR ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO BE JOINING THE FLEET BEFORE THIS TRANSITION OCCURS, AND BEING THOUGHTFUL ABOUT EXPENSES THAT WE SHOULD BE AVOIDING SUCH AS GRAPHICS, EMBLEMS. AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS I'M SOMEHOW PUTTING SOME CONTROLS AROUND ANYTHING ASSOCIATED WITH OFD AS IT RELATES TO GRAPHICS OR OTHER ELEMENTS THAT SPECIFICALLY ARE INVOLVED WITH OFD THAT THOSE AREN'T MADE UNLESS THERE'S A COUNCIL ACTION TO IMPROVE THEM. >> MR. MAYOR, IS THAT SOMETHING WE NEED A RESOLUTION ON? >> I THINK IT WOULD HELP JUST SO THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT THE COUNCIL SUPPORTS THAT POSITION AND PROVIDE STAFF WITH DIRECTION, TOO. >> JUST NEED DIRECTION, BUT A VOTE WOULD BE FINE. WE'RE NOT PLANNING ON DOING THAT ANYWAY, BUT SURE. >> THEN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT ANY EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH GRAPHICS OR ANY OFD SPECIFIC MATERIALS THAT DON'T ALIGN WITH THE FUTURE SHORELINE FIRE DEPARTMENT OR THE NEW NAME OF THE NEW DEPARTMENT COME TO THE COUNCIL FOR CONSIDERATION. >> SECOND. >> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL OF THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> OPPOSED, SAME TIME. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP. UPCOMING WORK SESSION, COUNCIL TRAINING SCHEDULE. [14. Upcoming Work Session and Council Training Schedule] I'LL GO BACK TO MR. EDWARDS ON THIS. >> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. I PUT THIS UNDER COUNCIL COMMITTEE REPORTS BECAUSE ACTUALLY, THE MAJORITY OF WHAT WE WANT TO TALK TONIGHT IS ABOUT A POTENTIAL FUTURE OR SPECIAL WORK SESSION THAT COUNCIL MEMBER BENSON HAS BEEN SHEPHERDING AND PROVIDED SOME DRAFT INFORMATION ON AND WANTED THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS WITH THE COUNCIL. THAT'S PROVIDED. THE OTHER THING JUST SO YOU KNOW IS, I STARTED SHIFTING OVER AND LOOKING FORWARD INTO 2026. AS YOU LOOK AT THAT STANDARD THING, I'VE GOT SOME OF THE INITIAL THINGS THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY DO IN THE NEW YEAR. ALREADY PENCILED IN THROUGH JUNE OF NEXT YEAR, SO STILL A BUNCH OF BLANKS, BUT IT'S IN THERE TO START THINKING ABOUT THOSE THINGS. >> I DESIGNED JUST A VERY AND I PUT ON THEIR DRAFT COPY, BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE COUNSEL'S THOUGHTS. MY IDEA IS TO FIND A TIME FOR A SPECIAL WORK SESSION TO DIG INTO THIS ISSUE FURTHER AND TO FIRST UNDERSTAND OUR TERMS. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR GUIDING PRINCIPLES ARE AND DEFINE TERMS. FOR SOME PEOPLE, PRESERVATION AND PROTECTION, OR SUSTAINABILITY MEANS LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS. THIS DRAFT IS REALLY AN IDEA OF WHERE ARE WE? WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ACHIEVE? WHAT ARE WE ALREADY DOING AT PRESENT? THEN WHERE MIGHT WE GO? BEFORE I GOT TOO MUCH FURTHER INTO IT, I WANTED TO GET FEEDBACK AND THERE'S NO PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP HERE. IT'S SIMPLY A STARTING POINT FOR DISCUSSION WHICH HAS NOT BEEN HAD ON A COUNCIL LEVEL, AT LEAST IN MY TIME ABOUT WHAT OUR CITY IS DOING ON ALL FRONTS TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE. THERE ARE MANY GOOD IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN GENERATED FROM CITIZENS OVER THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS. I'VE HEARD MY OWN IN TRAININGS, BUT REALLY JUST TRYING TO GET OUR ARMS AROUND WHAT WE VALUE, WHAT WE INTEND TO DO IN THE FUTURE. UNDERSTAND THE COMP PLAN, IS APPROACHING AS WELL, AND I BELIEVE THERE WILL BE CERTAIN LANGUAGE AROUND SOME OF THESE ISSUES IN THAT PROCESS. BUT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT I WOULD ARGUE IT'S QUITE EASY TO TAKE A LOOK AT AND BE MINDFUL OF AS WE'RE MOVING THROUGH DECISION MAKING IN THE INTERIM. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S WRITTEN IN STONE AND I UNDERSTAND ANY ONE OF THESE ITEMS COULD INVOLVE A DECENT AMOUNT OF STAFF'S TIME. I JUST REALLY WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE AND GET THOUGHTS OF COUNSEL AS WELL AS OF STAFF, SEE IF THERE'S ANY COMMENTS ON THIS. THEN ALSO LOOKING AT SCHEDULING A TIME THAT ALLOWS STAFF SOME DECENT RUNWAY IN TERMS OF PREPARING SOME OF THESE ITEMS. >> I'D LOVE TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS, ADAM ON HOW WE MIGHT HAVE STAFF FOLLOW UP ON THIS, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IT'S GREAT. I THINK THIS IS A GOOD START FOR AN OUTLINE. I WOULD JUST LOVE TO KNOW LOGISTICALLY HOW WE GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS AND HAVE A CONVERSATION. >> THAT'S THE BIGGEST CONCERN OR WHATEVER FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE IS JUST UNDERSTANDING THE SCOPE OF WHAT THE COUNCIL WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IN ANY ONE OF THESE BECAUSE A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF [02:30:01] THE 2040 COMP PLAN WE COULD SPEND DAYS DEPENDING ON.[OVERLAPPING] >> THAT WOULDN'T BE BRIEF THEN. >> THAT WOULD BE THE BRIEF VERSION. YOU COULD. IT TOOK THE BETTER PART OF A YEAR AND A HALF TO DEVELOP THAT THING THROUGH COMMITTEES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, SO DEPENDING ON HOW DEEPLY YOU WANTED TO GO INTO IT. THEN CITY MISSION VISION GOALS, WE COULD DO THAT. AGAIN, I KNOW WE SPENT A COUPLE HOURS EARLIER IN THE YEAR AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE OTHER THAN GETTING SOME BULLET TYPE FEEDBACK IF WE DELVED INTO THAT. AGAIN, THAT COULD. YOU COULD SPEND A DAY DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH. I'VE BEEN IN ORGANIZATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A WEEKEND RETREAT TO COME UP WITH THAT STUFF. THE INITIAL FEEDBACK FROM STAFF IS JUST WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR, BECAUSE WE CAN DO ONE, MANY OF THESE THINGS, BUT WE DON'T. WE COULDN'T DEEP DIVE ONTO ALL OF THAT. >> YES AND THAT'S NOT THE IDEA, AND WE COULD SCRAP ENTIRETY OF NUMBER 1. I THINK WHAT MY IMPRESSION IS THAT IT'S QUITE EASY. WHETHER IT'S A BUDGET CYCLE OR TALKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES IS THAT WITH A BRAND NEW COUNSEL WHO'S NOT WORKED TOGETHER ON THESE ISSUES IN THE PAST, THERE'S AN ORIENTATION THAT I THINK IS VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE IN TERMS OF THE TERMINOLOGY THAT YOU'RE USING AND WHAT WE ARE REFERRING TO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PRESERVATION OR PROTECTION. IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT WE NEED TO RE-LITIGATE OR RE-WRITE THE COMP PLAN OR THE MISSION VISION GOALS. IT'S TO SAY THAT THESE ARE LIVING DOCUMENTS THAT INFORM DECISION MAKING AND THAT ARE ALSO MEANT TO HELP US INNOVATE AS A CITY. IT'S SIMPLY AN ORIENTATION TO WHAT THIS DISCUSSION WOULD BE, NOT NEEDING TO WALK US THROUGH. MAYBE THERE ARE CERTAIN RELEVANT PORTIONS. IT'S REALLY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR CITY IS DOING ON A ACROSS DEPARTMENT LEVEL THAT ADDRESSES THESE ISSUES. THEN WHERE COULD WE GO? THAT'S WHAT I'VE GAINED A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE AND INSPIRATION FROM FROM OTHER CITIES, IS THAT THEY ARE ACTIVELY PURSUING. THE MONARCH PLEDGE WAS JUST ONE. THERE ARE CITIES WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THINGS LIKE THAT FOR YEARS, AND THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE. WHERE ARE WE MISSING OPPORTUNITIES TO WEAVE THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION OR THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS, WHETHER IT BE PESTICIDE REDUCTION, OR ANYTHING ELSE INTO HOW WE ARE OPERATING AS A CITY? WHETHER IT'S TO CONTROL COSTS TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT WETLANDS MORE, WHATEVER THOSE THINGS ARE. THERE'S A WHOLE HOST OF IDEAS. I JUST THINK IT'S YOU GOT TO PUT A STAKE IN THE GROUND AT SOME POINT, SAY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THESE THINGS. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE INTENTION IS TO MAKE STAFF JUMP THROUGH A BUNCH OF HOOPS. IS TO SAY WE AS A COUNCIL HAVE NOT DESIGNATED TIME TO DISCUSS THIS. I KNOW BASED ON MY CONVERSATIONS THAT IT IS ON THE MINDS OF OUR RESIDENTS. >> IT STRIKES ME THAT THE LEAGUE OF MINNESOTA CITIES MIGHT BE VERY HELPFUL IN HELPING US SET AN AGENDA OR DEFINE THIS. BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WHEN WE WERE AT THE ANNUAL CONFERENCE, THIS WAS HIGHLIGHTED AS VARIOUS CITIES WERE GETTING AWARDS FOR THE SUSTAINABILITY EFFORTS THAT THEY WERE TAKING. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY MAY HAVE A BIT OF A BLUEPRINT. YOU'RE RIGHT. WE NEED TO KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT NOW BEFORE WE CAN SAY, HERE'S WHERE WE WANT TO GO. >> I ALSO DON'T KNOW IF AND I DIDN'T TAKE TIME TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS, BUT GAUGING FROM THE COUNCIL'S REACTIONS, IS IT POSSIBLE TO BRING IN SOMEBODY TO HELP GUIDE THAT WORK SESSION? WHO WOULD THAT BE?[OVERLAPPING]. >> THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. >> FULLY AND I'M HAPPY TO MAKE THOSE CALLS MYSELF. I JUST WANT TO GAUGE WHERE WE ARE AND I'M NOT GOING TO SCHEDULE A SPEAKER, OR ANY GUESTS WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE ALL IN ALIGNMENT ABOUT WHAT SHAPE WE'RE TAKING HERE. THAT'S THE QUESTION IS IT, DO WE SCHEDULE SOMETHING AND GET SOME AGENDA ON THE GROUND TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS OR TRY TO BRING SOMEBODY IN WHO CAN HELP PROVIDE GUIDANCE IN THIS WORK SESSION OR GENERATE IDEAS? BECAUSE THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT HASN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE. THE QUESTION IS, HOW DO WE USE OUR TIME EFFECTIVELY AND REALLY GET THE BALL ROLLING? THAT'S THE QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF HAVE WE DONE THAT IN THE PAST? HAVE WE BROUGHT IN SPEAKERS OR FOLKS IN THE LEAGUE TO GUIDE DISCUSSION AROUND THIS AREA IN THE PAST? >> NO, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. NOWADAYS IT'S A LECTURE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE'VE BROUGHT IN OUR PARTNERS FROM [02:35:01] OTHER AGENCIES TO TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC THINGS THEY'RE WORKING ON OR I THINK WE WERE TALKING EARLIER TODAY ABOUT THE SURFACE WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT WE DO. WHEN WE WERE DOING THAT LAST TIME, THE WATERSHED DISTRICT CAME IN TO TALK TO THE COUNCIL ABOUT HOW WE WERE PARTNERING TOGETHER TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT TOGETHER. THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE WE'VE BEEN VERY FOCUSED ON A PARTICULAR PRODUCT OR PROCESS WHERE WE BROUGHT THEM IN, BUT NOT MORE LIKE WHAT YOU MIGHT GET AT A CONFERENCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AS A LEARNING TYPE EVENT, OR A TRAINING TYPE EVENT. AS I'M LISTENING, SOME OF THIS, WE KNOW THAT IN THE UPCOMING COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME GUIDANCE FROM THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL ON THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO INCLUDE ABOUT RESILIENCY AND SOME OTHER THINGS IN THE COMP PLAN THAT MAYBE HAVEN'T BEEN DONE IN THE PAST ON JUST THROWING STUFF OUT THERE. MAYBE IS IT WORTH TALKING OR GETTING OUR HANDS ON THAT? I DON'T THINK THE GUIDANCE IS FORMALIZED YET, BUT THEY'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT AND MAYBE WE BRING SOMETHING LIKE THAT AS A DRIVER OF THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING. >> YOU COULD ALSO AS AN IDEA, FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE, CURRENT PRACTICES IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING WE CAN SHARE IF THAT'S WHAT THE COUNCIL'S LOOKING FOR THAT HOLISTIC VIEW. BUT OTHER CITIES HAVE PUT TOGETHER LIKE YOU SAID, A BLUEPRINT ON HOW THEY'VE ADOPTED DIFFERENT SUSTAINABILITY PRACTICES, OR HOW THEY'VE LOOKED AT THEIR CITY'S SUSTAINABILITY, OR RESILIENCY PLANS. NOT A LOT OF CITIES, BUT I'VE SEEN CITIES DO PLANS BY MAYBE A THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT AND MAYBE BRINGING THOSE TYPES OF IDEAS, OR EXAMPLES FORWARD AT A WORK SESSION FOR YOU GUYS TO EXPLORE AND SEE WHAT THAT REALLY LOOKS LIKE WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU'D BE INTERESTED IN TO SEE THOSE HOLISTIC OF PICTURES. >> THAT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA, BECAUSE I KNOW AT THE CONFERENCE IN DULUTH THERE ARE FOLKS THERE WHO WERE VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN THAT TYPE OF WORK. THOSE ARE SERVICES THAT WERE OFFERED OR THE IDEA OF HELPING EDUCATE COUNSEL AND STAFF ON WHAT RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE TO TAKE A MORE COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT OUR CITY FROM THAT ANGLE. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT IN KNOWING MORE ABOUT THAT. >> ANY ACTION THAT WE NEED TO BE TAKING ON THIS? AGAIN, I LIKE THE IDEA, I LIKE THE NOTION OF HAVING THE DISCUSSION AND HAVING A PLAN. >> I DON'T WHAT ARE STAFFS THOUGHTS ON THAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF BRINGING IN OR HAVING STAFF BRIEF US ON AVAILABLE RESOURCES TO EITHER HELP GUIDE A DISCUSSION OR A THIRD PARTY CONSULTING TO COME UP WITH THAT TYPE OF PLAN FOR THE CITY. SUSTAINABILITY PLAN. I DON'T KNOW IF I MENTIONED IT HERE. THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES, AS YOU LIKELY KNOW THAT HAVE SUSTAINABILITY PEOPLE ON STAFF. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT ACTUALLY LAST YEAR AS PART OF THE HR COMMITTEE ABOUT HAVING ONE OF OUR PLANNERS BECOME BETTER TRAINED IN THAT AREA OR NATURAL RESOURCES, ONE OF OUR CITY PLANERS TO HAVE A FOCUS ON THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT EVER WENT. BUT THE POINT IS, I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING AND THE WAY I FEEL AS WELL, IS WE WOULD BENEFIT FROM MORE INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S THE COUNCIL COMING UP WITH A WORK SESSION, BUT IT'S QUITE HARD TO DO THAT WHEN THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OF AN UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT THERE IS AVAILABLE TO GUIDE US IN MAKING INFORMED DECISIONS THAT ARE CONSCIOUS AND MINDFUL OF HOW WE ARE PROCEEDING WITH THESE PRESERVATION PROTECTION ISSUES IN OUR CITY. THE COMP PLANS NOT GOING TO NECESSARILY TAKE CARE OF THAT. >> THE COMP PLAN IS GOING TO BE THAT HIGH LEVEL, AND ESPECIALLY THE NEW STUFF WE'LL BE ADOPTING WITH THE NEW COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THEY'RE REALLY GOING TO BE HIGH LEVEL POLICIES OR HIGH LEVEL GUIDING PRINCIPLES. >> YES. >> IT SOUNDS LIKE WITH SOME OF YOUR EXAMPLES HERE, YOU'RE INTERESTED OR PERHAPS THE COUNCIL'S INTERESTED IN MORE PRACTICE AND POLICIES OF IMPLEMENTATION ON HOW WE'RE ADOPTING. >> YES. SUSTAINABILITY PRACTICES, WHICH ISN'T THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL JUST ISN'T INTENDED REGARDING THE COMP PLAN. SO THAT'S WHERE AN ACTION PLAN COMES INTO PLACE THAT OTHER CITIES HAVE EXPLORED. WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE, WHETHER IT'S STAFF PRESENTING GENERALLY BACKGROUND OF THINGS WE'RE DOING AND MAYBE POSSIBLE NEXT STEPS AS A WORK SESSION FOR YOU GUYS TO MORE DISCUSS AND GIVE CLEARER DIRECTION, OR IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC IDEAS NOW AND WANT TO GIVE US DIRECTION ON MAYBE WHO TO INVITE IN OR WHAT TO LOOK AT, [02:40:01] WE CAN TAKE ANY NUMBER OF THOSE SCOPES FOR CREATING A DISCUSSION ON THIS. >> MAYBE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE IF YOU COME BACK AND MAKE A FIRST TRY AT EXPLAINING ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY DOING, WHETHER THAT BE SOMETHING THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE COMPLAIN, STORM WATER, SURFACE WATER MANAGEMENT, WHAT WE DO IN THAT ARENA. THE THING WITH RESILIENCY AND SUSTAINABILITY, IS, AND MAYBE FROM DOING THAT, WE CAN THEN GATHER, WELL, WHAT ARE THE GAPS OR WHAT'S THE DIFFERENT DIRECTION WE WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT AND THEN MAYBE FOLLOW THAT UP. WELL, WHAT DO WE DO TO FILL THOSE GAPS, WHETHER IT BE BRINGING IN CONSULTANTS OR DOING WHATEVER. I THINK SOME OF THIS, NO MATTER WHAT SETS US UP WELL AS WE DO GO INTO THE NEW COMP PLAN, BECAUSE IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO HAVE GONE THROUGH SOME OF THIS THOUGHT PROCESS WITH YOU ALL BEFORE WE START DIVING INTO TRYING TO CREATE THIS PLAN THAT WE WILL HAVE TO DO. >> SOUNDS LIKE [INAUDIBLE] DO YOU. IT'D BE HELPFUL IF YOU ACTUALLY CONTACTED THE LEAGUE AND GOT THEIR LIST OR WHAT THEY LOOK FOR, AS YOU GUYS GO THROUGH TO SEE WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DONE BEFORE, YOU COULD PROBABLY BE PLUGGING A LOT OF STUFF IN THAT YOU PROBABLY DON'T EVEN REALIZE THAT WE'RE ALREADY DOING, THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD WAY TO DO IT, AND THEN WE CAN START TO MOVE FORWARD THAT WAY. WE HAVE ALREADY HAVE FLUKED IN WHAT YOU NEED TO, AND THEN WE CAN FIND OUT WHAT OTHER SOURCES WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD. >> I'M ALSO INTERESTED TO KNOW IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS OR WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO MEETINGS WITH OTHER EITHER CITY ADMINISTRATORS OR PLANNERS FROM SURROUNDING LAKESHORE CITIES, EXCELSIOR RIGHT NOW IS WORKING ON A PARTNERSHIP TO REDUCE ALL OF THEIR CHEMICAL USAGE CITYWIDE. THAT'S A PARTNERSHIP THAT'S LIKELY BEEN IN PLACE OR WORKED ON FOR QUITE SOME TIME. SO HOW DID THAT START? THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN REAL TIME IN OTHER CITIES RIGHT AROUND HERE? SO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR STAFF IS, HOW ARE THESE CITIES ORIGINATING, HOW ARE THOSE PLANS COMING TO THEM? IS IT BEING GENERATED OUT OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION MADE UP OF RESIDENTS? IS IT SOMETHING THAT STAFF HAS RECEIVED ADDITIONAL TRAINING ON AND IS BRINGING FORTH TO EDUCATE COUNSEL ON? I DID NOTICE THAT THERE'S BEEN EXTRA TRAINING IN NATIVE PLANTINGS LATELY FROM SOME OF THE PLANNING STAFF HERE. AND THESE ARE THINGS THAT I'M INTERESTED IN HEARING BROUGHT FORWARD DURING UPDATES OR WHEN THERE ARE PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS OR OTHER MEETINGS AROUND TOWN TO HELP THIS COUNCIL BECOME BETTER EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT OUR NEIGHBORING CITIES ARE ALREADY IMPLEMENTING ALONG THESE LINES. >> SO A LOT OF TIMES MY EXPERIENCES, AND WHAT I SEE OTHER CITIES DO IS THE COUNCIL, LOTS OF TIMES WE'LL HAVE A SPECIFIC GOAL OR A DIRECTION, AND OUT OF THAT DIRECTION, THEN STAFF BRINGS UP OPTIONS OR POLICIES ON HOW TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL OR INTENTION. SO IF THE COUNCIL'S INTENTION IS TO IMPROVE, GREEN ENERGY WITH THE CITY, THEN THE STAFF CAN BRING FORWARD DIFFERENT IDEAS ON HOW TO ACHIEVE RENEWABLES AND THINGS LIKE THAT OR VICE VERSA. SO A LOT OF TIMES IF IT'S NOT THE COUNCIL, IT MIGHT BE A SUBCOMMITTEE LIKE A ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY TYPE COMMISSION THAT BRINGS FORWARD AN IDEA. IF THE COUNCIL IS INTENDED ON PURSUING AND ADOPTING A PRACTICE OF THAT IDEA, THEN THEY WOULD EITHER BUDGET A THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT TO DEVELOP A PLAN OR HAVE STAFF DEVELOP POLICIES AND PROCEDURES TO GET TO THAT GOAL. SO I THINK THE IDEA OF A WORK SESSION FOR THE COUNCIL TO DISCUSS YOUR GOALS AND INTENTIONS, AND WHAT SPECIFICALLY YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE, THEN WE CAN BRING FORWARD OPTIONS FOR YOU TO GET THERE. >> TO ANSWER YOUR PART OF THAT QUESTION, TOO. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE DO IN OUR PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS AND LIVES AND OUR NETWORKING GROUPS IS CONSTANTLY TRADING INFORMATION ABOUT, WHY DID YOU DO THAT? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT? SOME OF IT'S ENVIRONMENTAL, SOME OF ITS PROCESS, SOME IT'S BUDGETING, SOME OF ITS FINANCE. BUT WE'RE EXPOSED TO A BUNCH OF THAT THINGS, AND A LOT OF TIMES USING SOME JUDGMENT TO GO, WOULD WHATEVER ENTITY X IS DOING IN THEIR CITY, WOULD THAT WORK FOR US BASED ON WHAT WE ARE AND SOMETIMES THE ANSWER'S YES, SOMETIMES THE ANSWER IS NO. AND THEN SO SOME OF THAT, YOU WILL SEE US BRING FORWARD TO YOU, AND THAT'S ALSO WHAT INFORMS WHEN WE'RE DOING THINGS LIKE. I KEEP GOING JUST BECAUSE IT'S THE ONE THAT I DEAL WITH A LOT, SURFACE WATER MANAGEMENT. SO EVERY TIME I GO TO A CITY ENGINEER CONFERENCE OR AN APWA CONFERENCE, [02:45:02] SOMEBODY'S THERE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THEY KNEW THEY DID IN SURFACE WATER MANAGEMENT, AND WATER QUALITY AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SOME OF IT COULD APPLY. SOME OF IT DOESN'T APPLY. BUT WE ALWAYS TRYING TO LOOK FOR THOSE GOOD IDEAS. SAM, HOPEFULLY, SENDING YOU ALL TO THE LEAGUE CONFERENCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE'S BITS AND PIECES THAT GET GENERATED, AND WE GO, WE SHOULD TAKE A DEEPER LOOK AT THAT, AND AS LAURA SAYS, ONCE WE KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE, THEN WE CAN TAKE A DEEPER DIVE ON, GOING TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH OR FINDING THE RIGHT EXPERT OR WHATEVER TO BRING IN OR HOWEVER WE CAN MOVE THOSE INITIATIVES FORWARD. >> THAT SOUNDS LIKE WE SHOULD BE SETTING UP A SPECIAL WORK SESSION. I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT'S HEAVY BUDGETING TIME IF SEPTEMBER IS THE RIGHT TIMING ON THAT OR IF WE LOOK MORE TOWARD EARLY OCTOBER FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IT WOULDN'T BE AT A NORMAL WORK SESSION TIME. IT WOULD BE A WEEKDAY FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS AT A TIME THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY. >> AND THEN DO YOU HAVE A SCOPE WE TALK THAT HIGH LEVEL? >> I THINK SO. I DON'T KNOW. WHAT'S YOUR SENSE ON THAT? >> YEAH. MY SENSE IS I THINK IT IS HELPFUL. I'LL USE THE WORD OVERVIEW TO HEAR WHAT WE'RE DOING, BUT TO REALLY NOT GET LOST IN AN UPDATE ON ALL OF OUR STORMWATER PRACTICES AND ALL OF OUR PLANNING PRACTICES. I THINK I REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON WHAT IS POSSIBLE BASED ON THE COUNCIL HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPARE NOTES ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT THESE ISSUES ARE TO US AS INDIVIDUALS AS A COLLECTIVE. SO MAYBE AN OVERVIEW OF HOW WE TOUCH ON THIS, EITHER IN PLANNING OR IN STORMWATER, AND I UNDERSTAND THOSE ARE ALL COMPONENTS. I PUT THEM IN THIS. BUT TO REALLY LOOK AT WHERE WE GOING FROM HERE, WHO MIGHT WE BRING IN? WHAT ARE OTHER CITIES DOING TO EDUCATE THEIR COUNCILS OR THEIR STAFF, WHAT THIRD PARTY CONSULTANTS OR AVAILABLE RESOURCES WE CAN UTILIZE TO MOVE FORWARD TO PRIORITIZE THIS AND TO BRING IT CLOSER INTO OUR DECISION-MAKING AND OUR LANGUAGE AND OUR MISSION VISION GOALS AS THE LAKESHORE CITY. THAT'S MY IDEA. AN OVERVIEW, BUT ALSO REALLY SAYING WHERE ARE WE GOING FROM HERE. >> OKAY. AS WAY FORWARD, MAYBE I'LL SEND OUT SOME DOODLE PULL. >> I'D BE GREAT AVAILABLE LATE SEPTEMBER EARLY OCTOBER. >> OCTOBER IS [INAUDIBLE]. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL COMMITTEE AND BOARD REPORTS. [15. Council Committee and Board Reports] I DO HAVE SOMETHING ON THE FIRE ADVISORY BOARD. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THAT THEY LOOK? SO ADAM AND I ATTENDED THE FIRE ADVISORY BOARD ON AUGUST 13TH. WE REVIEWED THE OPERATING EXPENSES TO DATE. THEY'RE RIGHT ON TRACK. WE'RE AT 57.8% OF THE ANNUAL BUDGET VERSUS THAT'S THROUGH JULY, AND THAT'S RIGHT ON TRACK FOR THE YEAR OVERALL. REVIEWED CALL NUMBERS TO DATE, 329 TOTAL, 203 OF WHICH ARE IN ONO. WE DISCUSSED THE PROPOSED BUDGET, WHICH AGAIN, ASSUMES THAT WE'RE MERGING AND FORMING A NEW DEPARTMENT AS OF THE FIRST OF THE YEAR. I THINK THE INITIAL CRACK AT IT THAT ADAM AND SCOTT CAME UP WITH WAS 1,000,345 FOR AN OPERATING BUDGET, A CAPITAL BUDGET OF $475,000. THAT ASSUME AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG ABOUT ANY OF THIS, ADAM. ASSUMES THREE FULL TIME EMPLOYEES, 12 PART-TIME EMPLOYEES AND 45 PAID ON CALL. ALSO INCLUDES REBRANDING EXPENSES OF ABOUT 180,000 AND SOME TRANSITION ITEMS LIKE THE SCBA THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED. I THINK IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAME OUT OF THERE THAT WAS WORTHY. >> TALK ABOUT THE FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE WE DISCUSSED.. >> WHAT'S THAT? >> THE FACILITY IMPROVEMENTS THAT WERE DISCUSSED, SO WE WERE GOING TO WAIT. >> YEAH. I DIDN'T TAKE CAREFUL NOTES ON THAT, BUT THERE'S FIVE AC UNITS ON THE ROOF OF STATION 1 THAT ARE NEARING THERE AT THE END OF THE USEFUL LIVES. [02:50:02] AND TWO OF THEM ARE WORKING WELL. THE OTHER ONES ARE NOT PARTICULARLY WORKING VERY WELL, AND IN ORDER TO REPLACE THEM, YOU HAVE TO RENT A CRANE. SO IF THEY WERE TO REPLACE TWO OF THEM, AND THEN TWO ANOTHER TIME, THEY'D HAVE TO BRING THE CRANE BACK FOR THE SECOND TWO AND SO ON. SO THEY WERE ASKING FOR OUR INPUT ON WHETHER THEY SHOULD TRY TO REPLACE ALL FIVE AT ONCE OR JUST TWO AT ONCE, OR THREE. AND I CAN'T RECALL THE TOTAL COST OF IT. >> RIGHT AROUND 115, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. >> YEAH. SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER THAT IS AND IT DEPENDS ON HOW OUR LEASE ENDS UP, WHETHER THIS IS PAID BY THE LANDLORD OR WHETHER IT'S PAID THROUGH THE JPA. OUR PREFERENCE IS TO DO THAT THROUGH THE LANDLORD BECAUSE THAT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT A LANDLORD WOULD TYPICALLY COVER. AND IN THAT EVENT, IT WOULD BE PAID FOR A 50 50 BY THE OWNER PROPERTY AS OPPOSED TO THE TENANT PAYING FOR IT, WHICH WE WOULD PAY PERCENT. ANYWAY, THAT'S A TBD. WE DIDN'T MAKE ANY DECISIONS ON THAT FRONT, BUT IT WAS RAISED AS A NOT INSIGNIFICANT COMING ISSUE WE NEED TO DEAL WITH. THAT'S REALLY AC UNITS. SO AS WE HAVE WEATHER LIKE THIS, IT MAYBE DECREASES THE BURDEN OF DOING IT RIGHT AWAY, BUT IT WILL HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH. ANYTHING ELSE FROM THAT MEETING ADAM THAT YOU'D LIKE TO. >> NO, I GOES FOR THE PRIMARY THINGS AND THEN THE AGREEMENT TO BRING THE SCBA FOR TO BOTH COUNCILS, WHICH WE'VE NOW DONE. >> OKAY. ANY OTHER REPORTS? IF NOT, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO DISCUSS A PERSONAL MATTER. IN THIS CASE, IT'S TO CONTINUE THE ANNUAL PERFORMANCE REVIEW OF THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR. SO CAN I DO THAT ON MY OWN OR DO I NEED A RESOLUTION? >> THERE SHOULD BE A MOTION. MR. MAYOR, I WOULD ASK ON THE [OVERLAPPING]. >> MAGIC LANGUAGE. >> YES. >> THE READING THAT I DON'T HAVE IN FRONT OF ME HERE. >> THERE'S THE PURPOSE SECTION ON YOUR AGENDA ITEM, ADAM. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN PULL THAT UP. THERE'S ACTUALLY AN OPINION THAT SAYS SOMEONE FROM THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO READ IT, NO THE CITY ATTORNEY. >> I CAN READ IT. >> THERE IT IS. >> OKAY. I CAN'T BRING IT UP HERE. >> THERE IT IS. >> ALL RIGHT. I WOULD LIKE [Closed Session] TO CONDUCT A CLOSED SESSION IN ACCORDANCE WITH MINNESOTA STATUTE SECTION 13D.05 SUBDIVISION 3A TO DISCUSS THE PERFORMANCE REVIEW OF THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR. >> THANK YOU. >> THERE'S A MOTION THAT SECOND ON THAT. MOTION TO CLOSE THE MEETING. >> MOTION TO CLOSE THE MEETING. >> I'LL SECOND IT. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ALL THOSE IN CLOSE SAME SIGN. WE ARE GOING INTO CLOSED SESSION. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.