[00:00:01]
>> APOLOGIZE FOR STARTING A COUPLE OF MINUTES LATE HERE,
[Roll Call]
BUT I'D LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.FIRST OF ALL, WITH OUR ROLL CALL, NOTING THAT ALL COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT.
AND WE WILL BEGIN WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
PLEASE JOIN US IN RECITING THAT.
>> THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOU THAT ARE COMING OUT TO ATTEND THE MEETING TONIGHT.
THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.
[Approval of Agenda]
>> DO WE HAVE ANY CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS TO THE AGENDA INCLUDING ANY ITEMS THAT MAY WANT TO BE THAT A COUNCIL MEMBER OR A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WOULD LIKE TO SEE US PULL OUT OF THE CONSENT AGENDA? TONIGHT, THE CONSENT AGENDA INCLUDES CITY COUNCIL MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING.
CLAIMS AND BILLS, APPROVAL OF THOSE, AMENDING OUR ANNUAL APPOINTMENTS TO ADD COMMISSION EX OFFICIALS, CANNABIS REGISTRATION, WHICH IS RESOLUTION 7575, HIRE SEASONAL EMPLOYEES, HIRE PUBLIC WORKS MAINTENANCE WORKER, DISPOSAL OF BICYCLES, SECURITY CAMERA UPGRADE, AN ENCROACHMENT AGREEMENT AT 3545 IV PLACE, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND VARIANCES, RESOLUTION 7577 FOR 30 EAST LONG LAKE RD.
FINALLY, AN AVERAGE LAKE SHORE SETBACK, CHANGE TO ORDINANCE 313.
>> MR. MAYOR, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD AN AGENDA ITEM FOR BRIEF DISCUSSION ABOUT QUORUM NOTIFICATION AND ALSO PULL NUMBER 3, PLEASE OFF CONSENT.
>> MR. MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO MOVE ITEM NUMBER 20, NEW BUSINESS TO BE RIGHT AFTER NUMBER 17 BEFORE WE GO INTO CLOSED SESSION.
>> WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE ADDITIONAL AGENDA ITEM ADDED?
I DON'T IT'S NOT PRESSING, SO IF WE'D LIKE TO TAKE CARE OF OTHER BUSINESS AHEAD OF THAT, THAT'S NO PROBLEM.
>> HOW ABOUT IF WE PUT IT IN AHEAD OF THE ATTORNEY REPORT?
>> IT'LL BE AFTER WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA AS ITEM 15.
ANY OTHER CHANGES? QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE ON THAT? WITH THAT, I WOULD HERE IN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA,
[Consent Agenda]
MINUS ITEM NUMBER 3.>> MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA WITH REMOVING NUMBER 3.
>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> ALL THOSE OPPOSED, SAME SIGN.
NOW WE'LL MOVE TO PUBLIC COMMENTS,
[Public Comments]
AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL.PLEASE NOTE THAT WE WON'T ENGAGE IN ANY DISCUSSION OR TAKE ANY ACTION TONIGHT ON ITEMS PRESENTED UNLESS THEY'RE ALREADY ON THE AGENDA.
BUT WE MAY REFER ISSUES TO STAFF FOR FOLLOW UP OR CONSIDERATION OF A FUTURE MEETING.
SPEAKER SHOULD STATE THEIR NAME AND HOME ADDRESS AT THE PODIUM BEFORE SPEAKING.
WE'D ASK YOU TO TRY TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS BELOW THREE MINUTES.
IF IT'S A SUBJECT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED BY SOMEONE ELSE, WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU HOLD YOUR COMMENTS AT THIS POINT.
>> HI, MY NAME IS JIM TYSON AND I LIVE AT 1295 ELMWOOD AVENUE.
TONIGHT'S AGENDA, ITEM NUMBER 12 FOR STUBBS BAY, LID WILL BE PRESENTED AFTER PUBLIC COMMENTS.
LIKELY ERIC EVENSON WITH LAKE MINNETONKA ASSOCIATION WILL PRESENT, AS HE DID AUGUST 26, 2024 TO THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL.
ALYSSA, YOU MAY HAVE BEEN PRESENT FOR THAT.
I AM HERE AGAIN IN OPPOSITION TO THE FORMATION OF LIDS AND ORONO FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS.
I WILL ADDRESS ONLY ISSUES RELATED TO THE CITY AT THIS TIME.
BUT THERE ARE MANY RELATED TO THE RESIDENTS AS WELL.
ITEM NUMBER 1, COSTS ASSOCIATED TO MANAGE A LID BY CITY STAFF.
SEE CARMAN'S BAY, DATING BACK TO 2017 TO UNDERSTAND THE CITY INVOLVEMENT FOR ARCHIVING RECORDS, REPORTING TO THE COUNTY, AS WELL AS TO THE STATE.
RECOGNIZE AS A BAY MIGHT BE ADDED, THEY ARE EACH THEIR OWN ENTITY,
[00:05:02]
AND WILL REQUIRE SIMILAR STAFFING NEEDS, COUNTY AND STATE REPORTING AND COUNCIL'S TIME.STATE STATUTE PLACES LIABILITY ON THE CITY AND HOLDS HARMLESS THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.
THE CITY WILL BE ASKED TO MANAGE A PUBLIC BODY OF WATER OWNED BY THE STATE.
DOES THIS SERVE ALL RESIDENTS OF ORONO, OR IS THIS UNNECESSARY BUREAUCRACY ALONG WITH UNNECESSARY RISK? ERIC EVENSON WAS BEFORE LMCD ON FEBRUARY 12.
HE WANTS MORE LIDS WITHOUT PUTTING MORE TREATMENT COSTS ON PUBLIC AGENCIES.
IN CLOSING, I REITERATE THAT I AM OPPOSED TO THE CREATION OF LIDS IN ORONO, AND WOULD ASK THAT THE CITY COUNCIL DO THE SAME.
>> I'M GABRIEL JABBOUR, 985 TONKA RD.
ALTHOUGH MY COMMENT MIGHT SOUND NEGATIVE, I'M REALLY HERE WITH THE INTENT OF BEING HELPFUL AND KIND IF I COULD DO THAT.
AS SOME OF YOU HAVE RECEIVED MANY EMAILS FROM ME ON AND OFF WITH SENSE OF FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE WAY THINGS GOING REGARDING PUBLISHING AND ASKING FOR PEOPLE TO GET JOBS PRIOR TO YOU FIGURING OUT WHO'S ON FIRST WAS EXTREMELY DISTASTEFUL TO ME.
AS I WAS SITTING IN OUT OF 10, MY RESIDENTS I COULDN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PHONE CALLS I GOT.
I'M HERE TO ASK THE COUNCIL TO BE KIND TO ME.
YOU COULD DO IT VERY EASILY BY BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE FORECOMING ON WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHIN A DAY, A YEAR, FIVE YEARS.
I'M EQUALLY AS FRUSTRATED AND I WANT TO EXPRESS MY FRUSTRATION WITH THREE OF YOUR EMPLOYEES.
I WANT TO EXPRESS MY ABSOLUTE OUTRAGE ABOUT OUR FIRE CHIEF WHO BETRAYED HIS FORMER EMPLOYEE AND SET ON TO DESTROY THEIR BUSINESS.
BUT MORALLY AND WAY I WAS GROWN UP, THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE.
I DON'T FIND IT APPROPRIATE FOR HIM TO BE MY FIRE CHIEF AND WORKING WITH MY TAX LEVEL.
I EQUALLY DISAPPOINTED WITH OUR LAW FIRM WHO ALLOWED TO CONTEMPT OF COURT TO OCCUR.
COUNCIL, YOU AND I ALWAYS MET IN HERE BEFORE THE MEETING AS YOU TRYING TO MAKE YOUR WAY HERE, AND I AMBUSHED YOU AND I ASKED YOU, PLEADED WITH YOU TO FIND A WAY TO HAVE THE FORMER COUNCIL SEE THE LIGHT.
IF YOU DIDN'T, I'M AMAZED YOU SAT THERE AND SEEN THEM DO THAT.
FINALLY, I'M EXTREMELY FIND IT INAPPROPRIATE THE DIRECTION THAT OUR CITY ADMINISTRATOR, NOT MANAGER.
THE PROFOUND STATUTORY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADMINISTRATOR AND MANAGER, CONTINUE PERPETUATING THE OLD REGIME.
THE CITIZEN I SPOKE, AND THEY DIDN'T SPEAK GENTLY, THEY SPOKE LOUDLY IN MASSES.
WE MIGHT BE REPUBLICAN, WE MIGHT BE DEMOCRAT, BUT WE ARE A FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE CITY.
YOU, MR. MAYOR, WERE THE FIRST ONE TO SHOW US WHERE WE WERE GOING ON A VIDEO.
I'D LIKE TO SEE THE DAY THAT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED.
MORE IMPORTANT, WE DID NOT SEND A TONE TO WHERE THE DIRECTION OF THE CITY IS GOING.
NOW, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU FOR A COUPLE OF THINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN I THINK YOU THINK I SHOULD ASK YOU.
I KINDLY ASK YOU TO DO A FREEZE, NOTHING.
WE BUILDED THIS CAMPUS, AND I WAS A PROJECT MANAGER.
AND ME AND STEVE HELPED BUILD THAT STATION, ACTUALLY, AFTER MANY DAYS OF DEBATE.
I BOUGHT AS A MAYOR, ENGAGED THE SCHOOL AND BOUGHT TWO ADDITIONAL ACRE FOR PUBLIC WORKS.
OUR CITY, LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE AND PROJECT WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE.
[00:10:03]
TWENTY TO THIRTY PERCENT OF OUR ROADS ARE COUNTY.TWENTY TO THIRTY PERCENT OF OUR ROADS ARE PRIVATE ROADS.
THE POPULATION HAVEN'T INCREASED.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NEED OF IT.
THE IDEA WE WERE SOLD ON THE ISSUE OF A CAMPUS THAT THE EFFICIENCY IS SO PHENOMENALLY GOOD BECAUSE PEOPLE COULD WALK FROM ONE DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER.
THEY NEED A CONFERENCE, WE HAVE A JOINT CONFERENCE ROOM, ETC.
I HAD DISCUSSION AND YOU HAVE A COPY OF HIS LETTER FROM THE CEO.
NOW, HE'S NO LONGER THE CEO, THE NEW GENERATION TOOK OVER THE SHOW HOW WE BECOMING OF CROSS ANDERSON, WHO RELUCTANTLY HELP THE SCHOOL DISTRICT RELUCTANTLY HELP ORONO BECAUSE WE LIVE IN ORONO AND HE HELPED US.
YOU ASKED ME, STEVE, WHEN YOU WERE ON THE HOCKEY.
HOW DID WE BUILD THAT SO CHEAP, AND TO HELP YOU WITH THAT TOO? THAT HE WILL BE MORE AN HAPPY AT NO COST TO YOU TO VIEW THE BUILDING AND SEE HOW HE COULD RE COMMISSION IT.
HE'LL BE BACK IN TOWN SHORTLY AND HE'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT.
PLEASE DO NOT LET THE COMING 50 YEARS PAY FOR IT.
BESIDES A MAN HOUR, AND I REALLY URGE YOU TO RE ENGAGE RON OLSON AND I KNOW YOU MET WITH THEM.
HAVE HIM GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT INSIGHT ON THE FACT THE CITY HAS IN IT.
THE CITY TOWARDS THE END, WAS BEING RAN BY BRIBE.
TO KEEP PEOPLE HAPPY, THEY GET THEM NEW ENGINES.
WE HIRED A CITY CLERK AT $100,000.
NOW, WE'VE DONE PHENOMENA MODE OF WORK, AND I'M GRATEFUL TO OUR PREDECESSOR.
I KNOW I'M OVERSHOOTING THE THREE MINUTES, AND I'M GOING TO TRY TO CUT IT SHORT.
THE SECOND THING I WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT WE JOINED THE PLAINTIFF AGAINST ORONO.
THREE OF US, ME, FORMER MAYOR JIM WHITE, AND FORMER MAYOR BARBARA PETERSON, AN APPELLATE COURT CASE WHICH YOU KEPT IT PENDING.
WE ARE BEING ASKED TO HAVE ORAL WE'RE IN COURT, YOU IN COURT.
I DO NOT WANT TO BE AGAINST THE CITY OF ORONO WITH THIS NEW COUNCIL.
I'M WONDERING IF YOU STRATEGIC REASON FOR THAT CASE NOT BE DISMISSED BY ORONO.
I WOULD ONLY ASSUME IT'LL GIVE YOU MORE REASON TO HAVE EXECUTIVE SESSION AND DISCUSS ISSUES.
IF THAT ISN'T THERE MIGHT NOT BE A REASON FOR YOU TO DO SO.
THIS IS THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL OF MY COMMENTS.
THERE'S A GROUP OF US TRYING TO TAKE THE FORMER MAYOR, MAKE SURE HE GETS IT.
BOB ERICKSON AND MATT JOHNSON TO COURT UNDER RICO ACT, WE BELIEVE WE HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT THEY WILL BE GUILTY ON THE RICO ACT.
IF WE ARE PREVAILED CIVILLY, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WILL TAKE IT CRIMINALLY.
THE ONLY THING WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET ENOUGH CRITICAL MASS TO HAVE STANDING.
I'M SURE, COUNCIL YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT AND SO ON.
THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH STOMACH PAIN IS GOING TO CAUSE YOU? SHOULD WE YIELD TO YOU? I THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD TALK ABOUT IT AND GET BACK TO ME.
I DON'T WANT TO WIN AT ALL COST.
THAT'S IN OUR REAR VIEW MIRROR.
THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR SERVICE AND CONGRATULATIONS.
>> HI, KELLY PERKLE 4705 WATERTOWN RD. A COUPLE OF THINGS.
I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HARD WORK THAT YOU'VE PUT IN AT THE ONSET OF YOUR TERMS, THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NEW AS WELL AS JUST BRINGING IN THE NEW COUNCIL.
IT'S NOT EASY, I'M SURE, TO NAVIGATE THE CHALLENGING WATERS OF FINDING A NEW SOLUTION FOR FIRE,
[00:15:04]
AND I'M GRATEFUL AS SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN VERY VOCAL OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, VERY GRATEFUL TO HAVE AN INTERIM PLAN, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE FUTURE PLANS LONG TERM.I ALSO JUST WANT TO MENTION FOR THOSE WHO ARE LISTENING AND WATCHING THAT WE HAVE A SPECIAL ELECTION COMING UP, AND THERE WILL BE A LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS EVENT HERE ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 PM WHERE YOU CAN MEET THE CANDIDATES WHO CHOOSE TO JOIN US, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT VERY MUCH AND HOPE TO SEE A LARGE COMMUNITY PRESENCE AT THAT EVENT.
AGAIN, HERE AT CITY OR IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS.
THEN ALSO A TOUR OF THE PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING ON THURSDAY AT 4:00 PM.
FOR ANYONE WHO'S INTERESTED, AND I KNOW MYSELF.
I'M VERY INTERESTED IN SEEING THE BUILDING AFTER SO MUCH DISCUSSION.
JUST WANTED TO MAKE THOSE QUICK ANNOUNCEMENTS. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? [NOISE]
>> MY NAME IS BRUCE LEMKE, 565 OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD, AND I AM RUNNING FOR THE OPEN COUNCIL SEAT, AND KELLY STOLE MY THUNDER.
I JUST WANTED TO MENTION, WEDNESDAY NIGHT.
GET AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN, 7:00, 8:30.
I'D LOVE TO SEE EVERYBODY HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR RUNNING. ANYONE ELSE?
>> J. NIGER, 1386 REST POINT ROAD.
I'M SURE EVERYBODY OUT HERE DOES.
I'M HERE BECAUSE INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH TONIGHT IS ADAM EDWARDS BASICALLY YEARLY REVIEW.
I THOUGHT THIS WAS A PERFECT TIME TO REMIND YOU OF WHO ADAM EDWARDS REALLY IS AS OPPOSED TO WHAT HE TELLS YOU HE IS IN ALL THESE MEETINGS.
BECAUSE THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH CITY STAFF.
WHEN YOU HAVE CITY STAFF, SUCH AS ADAM EDWARDS, WHO CHOOSES TO PICK SIDES, CHOOSES WHO HE LIKES BETTER THAN OTHERS, CHOOSES TO COVER UP CERTAIN THINGS FOR THE FORMER MAYOR AND OTHER STUFF.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE LIVED HERE ALL OUR LIVES AND ARE SIMPLY LOOKING TO BE TREATED FAIRLY.
CASE IN POINT WILL COME IN A LITTLE BIT.
BUT FIRST, I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE PUBLIC WORKS.
ADAM EDWARDS IS A CIVIL ENGINEER.
I INSTALL EXTREMELY COMPLICATED SOLAR SYSTEMS, AND I HAVE TO DEAL WITH XCEL ENERGY, ALL KIND OF UTILITIES, AND GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS.
I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE AN ENGINEER.
A CIVIL ENGINEER IS ACTUALLY AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ENGINEER SPECTRUM.
IT'S NOT AS HARD TO GET THERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT NEARLY AS COMPLICATED.
UNFORTUNATELY, ADAM EDWARDS HIMSELF HAS SHOWN THAT HE HAS VERY LITTLE COMPREHENSION AS TO CIVIL ENGINEERING.
THIS GENTLEMAN AT ONE TIME TRIED TO TELL ME THAT A 30-YEAR-OLD DRIVEWAY SETTLING WAS THE ISSUE OVER A NEWLY BUILT ROAD THAT WAS DUMPING WATER ONTO A PROPERTY.
ANY CIVIL ENGINEER WOULD KNOW A 30-YEAR-OLD DRIVEWAY SETTLED A LONG TIME AGO, AND THE NEW ROAD HAPPENS TO BE THE ISSUE. EXCUSE ME, SIR.
>> IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME OUT HERE IN FRONT OF THE MICROPHONE AND TAKE YOUR FEW MINUTES.
YES, WATER DOES FLOW DOWNHILL, AND THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS CONSTRUCTED A POOR ROAD AND THEN TRIED TO FORCE ILLEGAL REQUIREMENTS ON ME, AND THEN WHEN I WOULDN'T CAPITULATE, CRIMINALLY PROSECUTE ME AND MY WIFE.
WHICH, BY THE WAY, WE WERE BOTH EXONERATED.
I WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY REPRESENTING MYSELF AT TRIAL.
SHE WAS DISMISSED HALFWAY THROUGH FOR LACK OF PROBABLE CAUSE.
BUT YOUR USE OF THE CRIMINAL CODE TO TRY TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE AND TO USE THEIR WIVES TO TRY TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE IS BULLSHIT.
NOW, YOU'RE SITTING UP HERE, DOING THIS STUFF, WATER FLOWS DOWN.
WHEN YOU HAVE A DRIVEWAY THAT'S HERE FROM 30 YEARS, AND YOU BUILD A ROAD HIGHER THEN THE WATER IS GOING TO GO IN.
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT? THAT'S WHY YOU'RE A PROBLEM.
JUST ONE OF THE REASONS. THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL INTERACTION.
DO WE REALLY WANT IN THIS COMMUNITY CITY STAFF THAT'S GOING TO BASICALLY APPROVE POORLY DESIGNED THINGS, INCOMPETENT STAFF.
THEN WHAT DO THEY DO? WHEN IT'S POINTED OUT, THEY SCREW IT UP.
THEY GO AFTER THE PEOPLE AND SUGGEST, NOT ONLY SUGGEST, BUT THEN DEMAND THAT THE PEOPLE PAY THEIR OWN MONEY TO FIX THE CITY'S PROBLEM.
THEN WHEN THE PEOPLE DON'T SPEND THEIR OWN MONEY TO FIX THE CITY'S PROBLEM,
[00:20:03]
WE'RE GOING TO CRIMINALLY PROSECUTE.IS THAT THE TYPE OF PEOPLE WE WANT INTERACTING WITH OUR RESIDENTS? REALLY, GIVE ME A BREAK.
THAT'S JUST THE PERSONAL STUFF.
YOU CAN KEEP DOING THAT ALL YOU WANT.
I'M NOT GOING TO STOP TILL I'M DONE, AND I APPRECIATE THAT YOU KEEP DOING IT TO ME AND YOU DIDN'T DO IT TO GABRIEL.
WHAT DID I JUST SAY ABOUT BIAS? PUBLIC WORKS.
>> LET'S TRY TO KEEP THE DECORUM, SHALL WE?
>> PUBLIC WORKS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR A WHILE.
I HAD CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANTS COME TO ME, TALK TO ME ABOUT THE RACIST AND SEXIST WORK ENVIRONMENT.
TALK ABOUT THE HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT, LED BY THE NOW PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, DJ GOMAN.
ADAM EDWARDS COVERED THIS STUFF UP.
HE TOLD GOMAN, NIGER'S REPORTING THIS, BUT JUST WAIT.
THEY EVENTUALLY HAD TO FIRE THE INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS CAUSING ALL THE ISSUES BECAUSE GOMAN COULDN'T PROTECT HIM ANYMORE.
HE'D BEEN SO EGREGIOUS WITH HIS BEHAVIOR.
BUT NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPEN IF I DIDN'T BRING THIS TO LIGHT.
WE DIDN'T HAVE THINGS GOING ON IN THE CITY TO INVESTIGATE WHAT'S GOING ON.
THAT'S THE ONLY REASON ANYTHING HAPPENED.
BUT WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN HERE WHO NOT ONLY COVERED UP THE HOSTILE AND RACIST WORKPLACE, HE COVERED UP ILLEGAL GIFTS TO THE CITY.
HE ALSO HELPED COVER UP THE DUMPING OF SEWAGE INTO NORTH ARM.
THE SEWAGE THEY HAD BEEN DUMPING THERE FOR A WHILE.
I TESTED IT. IT WAS FULL OF E. COLI.
I SHOWED THAT ON A VIDEO FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE.
THEY CLEANED IT OUT AND THEN TESTED IT AND SAID IT WAS OKAY.
ALL THE WHILE, THEY'RE DUMPING E. COLI INTO NORTH ARM.
THIS IS INCOMPETENCE COMPLETELY.
BUT LAST AND CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, THIS GENTLEMAN HAS CALLED THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR, AND THERE IS A SPECIFIC CODE IN OUR CODE THAT SAYS, "EXCEPT FOR THE PURPOSE OF INQUIRY, THE MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL SHALL NOT DEAL WITH.
OR EXERCISE CONTROL OVER THE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CITY, AND AS A MEMBER SHALL NOT GIVE ORDERS TO ANY DEPARTMENT HEAD, EITHER PUBLICLY OR PRIVATELY, EXCEPT THROUGH A MAJORITY VOTE OF THE COUNCIL.'' WE ALL KNOW DOG ON WELL, THAT THAT GUY WAS SITTING DOWN WITH MAYOR WALSH TIME AND TIME AGAIN, TAKING DIRECTION.
HE'S A CITY ADMINISTRATOR. THAT'S HIS JOB.
YET, HE HAD NO PROBLEM BEING DIRECTED, ONE ON ONE BY THE MAYOR FOR YEARS.
THIS GENTLEMAN'S INTEREST ISN'T IN THE CITY.
THIS GENTLEMAN'S INTEREST IS IN HIS POCKETBOOK AND SAVING HIS JOB.
I REALLY HOPE YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT AND CONSIDER IT BECAUSE THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT ARE IN HIS DEAL TONIGHT THAT I HIGHLIGHTED.
ONE IS TO CREATE AND MAINTAIN A PROFESSIONAL AND POSITIVE WORK ENVIRONMENT, AND THAT SURELY NEVER HAPPENED IN PUBLIC WORKS.
I'VE GOT PEOPLE INSIDE WHO'VE TOLD ME THAT.
LASTLY, TO FOSTER A HEALTHY WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN COUNSEL STAFF AND COMMUNITY.
HOW THE HECK IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THIS GUY IS UP HERE, SAYING THERE'S A CONSPIRACY AGAINST HIM.
SAYING THERE'S A CONSPIRACY ON THE INTERNET AND SOCIAL MEDIA AGAINST HIM.
YOU KNOW WHAT? IT'S NOT A CONSPIRACY.
IT'S A GROUNDSWELL OF RESIDENTS WHO CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AND WANT CHANGE.
BUT REALLY, CALL ME IN A CONSPIRACY? YOU'RE FULL OF IT DUDE.
>> MY NAME IS BEN BEACH, I LIVE AT 1065 WILLBY DRIVE.
I CURRENTLY SERVE AS A LIEUTENANT ON THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
I'VE BEEN A MEMBER FOR COMING UP ON EIGHT YEARS.
I'M ALSO A LIEUTENANT ON THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT, AND I'VE BEEN WITH THE DEPARTMENT SINCE ITS INCEPTION.
LET ME JUST BEGIN BY EXPRESSING MY GRATITUDE.
>> IF YOU NEED TO RUN, THAT'S OKAY.
>> I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS FOR BRINGING THE DEPARTMENTS TOGETHER.
THAT'S BEEN WHAT WE'VE WANTED SINCE DAY ONE. I APPRECIATE IT.
I KNOW THAT IN OUR CONVERSATIONS YOU'VE SHARED SOME FRUSTRATIONS, AND I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS WORKING THROUGH THAT.
THAT BEING SAID, I READ THROUGH EVERYTHING AND DO HAVE A FEW THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO BRING UP.
BEFORE WE GO AHEAD AND BLOW UP BOTH SERVICE MODELS, I THINK IT'D BE IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT FIRST THE COHESION AND THE MORALE BETWEEN THE TWO DEPARTMENTS.
OBVIOUSLY, FIREFIGHTERS WE'RE PASSIONATE PEOPLE.
FIRE SERVICE HAS BEEN A HOT BUTTON ITEM IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.
LOTS OF STRONG OPINIONS, AND WITH THAT, HAS COME SOME HARASSMENT.
[00:25:01]
THERE'S BAD BLOOD BETWEEN PEOPLE.RELATIONSHIPS HAVE BEEN FRACTURED.
I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER AS A JOINT DEPARTMENT, HOPEFULLY, IN THE NEAR FUTURE, I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO FOCUS ON THAT AND GET THESE PEOPLE TOGETHER BEFORE WE START RESPONDING JOINTLY.
THE SECOND PIECE. READING THROUGH THAT EXHIBIT C SAYS THAT ORONO FIREFIGHTERS HAVE PRIORITY TO TAKE DUTY CREW SHIFTS.
LONG LAKE FIREFIGHTERS CAN FILL IN WHERE NEEDED IF THEY WANT TO.
THEN IT ALSO GOES ON TO SAY THAT EQUIPMENT FROM BOTH DEPARTMENTS CAN BE USED SO LONG AS PEOPLE ARE PROPERLY TRAINED ON THOSE PIECES OF EQUIPMENT.
THE REALITY IS, MOST OF THE LONG LAKE FIREFIGHTERS HAVE NEVER USED OR TOUCHED THE ORONO EQUIPMENT AND VICE VERSA.
THE PART TIMERS AT ORONO HAVE NEVER USED THE LONG LAKE EQUIPMENT.
AGAIN, BEFORE WE GO BLOWING UP BOTH SERVICE MODELS, I THINK IT'D BE IN ALL OF OUR BEST INTEREST TO A, GET THESE GROUPS BACK TOGETHER.
I DON'T THINK IT'S OUT OF THE QUESTION TO SAY THAT BRINGING IN PROFESSIONAL MEDIATION TO HELP REBUILD THOSE BRIDGES THAT HAVE BEEN BURNED, I DON'T THINK THAT'S OUT OF THE QUESTION.
THEN TRAINING. WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY JOINT TRAINING TO THIS POINT.
SO TO SAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO ALL OF A SUDDEN START DOING JOINT OPERATIONS AND RESPONDING JOINTLY AND DOING JOINT DUTY CREWS, I THINK IT'S PUTTING THE CART AHEAD OF THE HORSE A LITTLE BIT.
I DO UNDERSTAND THAT PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS POINT, PROBABLY NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING.
I THINK YOU'VE PROBABLY MADE UP YOUR MINDS, BUT I DO WANT TO ASK THAT YOU TAKE MY COMMENTS INTO CONSIDERATION AS YOU GO TO YOUR VOTE TONIGHT.
>> APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE?
>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS.
MY NAME IS SHEA CHWIALKOWSKI. I LIVE AT 6809, DALE AVENUE IN RICHFIELD.
I'M A HUSBAND TO AN INCREDIBLE WOMAN WHO GREW UP RIGHT HERE IN THE LONG LAKE ORONO AREA.
SHE'S A PROUD SPARTAN, A LIFETIME PRODUCT OF THE ORONO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
I SPENT MY CHILDHOOD ON FAGERNESS POINT, AND MY PARENTS LIVED THERE UNTIL THEIR RETIREMENT.
MY MOTHER IN LAW LIVES ON LONG LAKE.
MY KIDS HAVE GROWN UP SWIMMING IN THESE WATERS AND FISHING IN THESE SHORES.
LIKE MANY OF YOU, THIS AREA LIVES IN MY FAMILY'S MEMORIES AND IN OUR HEARTS.
ALSO MY THIRD AND MOST IMPORTANT JOB BEYOND BEING A HUSBAND AND A DAD, I'M THE DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF AT THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT.
I'VE BEEN A FIREFIGHTER FOR 18 YEARS.
I'VE SERVED IN NEARLY EVERY CAPACITY THE FIRE SERVICE HAS TO OFFER.
I VOLUNTEER TO FULL TIME CAREER FIREFIGHTER.
FIREFIGHTING IS NOT SOMETHING I DO. IT'S WHO I AM.
IT'S WHO WE ARE. THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THIS IS NOT A HOBBY.
IT'S OUR CALLING, IT'S OUR PURPOSE, AND IT'S OUR DUTY.
COLLECTIVELY, YOUR ORONO FIREFIGHTERS BRING MORE THAN 300 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE ACROSS OVER 25 DEPARTMENTS.
WHEN THE CITY OF ORONO ASKED FOR HELP, WHEN IT NEEDED PROFESSIONALS TO BUILD A FIRE DEPARTMENT FROM THE GROUND UP, WE RAISED OUR HANDS.
WE ANSWERED THE CALL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT FIREFIGHTERS DO.
WE KNEW IT WOULDN'T BE EASY. WE KNEW THERE WOULD BE RESISTANT SKEPTICISM, AND MAYBE EVEN SOME CRITICISM.
BUT WE BELIEVED OUR ACTIONS, OUR DEDICATION, OUR PROFESSIONALISM WOULD EARN THE COMMUNITY'S TRUST OVER TIME.
WHAT NONE OF US COULDN'T HAVE IMAGINED WAS THE ENDLESS WAVES OF TOXIC MISINFORMATION, PUBLIC ATTACKS, AND POLITICAL MANEUVERING THAT WOULD FOLLOW.
WE STAYED SILENT WHILE OUR MOTIVATIONS WERE QUESTIONED, WHILE OUR PROFESSIONALISM WAS DISMISSED BY THOSE WITH NO FIRE SERVICE EXPERIENCE.
WE DIDN'T RESPOND WHEN WE WERE MOCKED OR WHEN SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERTS WHO HAVE NEVER ONCE RESPONDED TO AN EMERGENCY CLAIMED TO KNOW HOW WE SHOULD DO OUR JOBS.
WE TOOK THE HIGH ROAD WHEN EVERY ASPECT OF THE DEPARTMENT THAT WE BUILT TOGETHER WAS FALSELY RIDICULED AND POLITICIZED.
IRONICALLY, SOME OF THE SAME CRITICS WHO ONCE CLAIMED THAT OFD MODEL WAS UNSAFE, ARE NOW SUPPORTIVE OF AGREEMENT THAT BLATANTLY PLAGIARIZES A VERY OFD MODEL THAT THEY PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED INEFFECTIVE.
WE DIDN'T ASK TO BE PART OF A POLITICAL BATTLE.
WE WERE ASKED TO BUILD, AND WE DID.
WE'VE GIVEN THE CITY OF FIRE DEPARTMENT IT'S MODERN, SUSTAINABLE, AND EFFECTIVE.
WE'VE GIVEN THE CITY OF FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD BE PROUD OF.
BUT LET'S GET REAL, $20,000 A WEEK TO PROTECT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF PROPERTY AND THOUSANDS OF CITIZENS' LIVES IS A BARGAIN.
WE ARE NOT HERE TO BE THE CHEAPEST.
WE ARE HERE TO BE THE BEST WHEN YOUR FAMILY NEEDS US THE MOST.
IF THE GOAL IS THE CHEAPEST FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEN LET'S BE HONEST, HAVE NO FIRE DEPARTMENT AT ALL.
BUT KNOW THIS, WHEN YOU GO CHEAP, YOU LOSE HOUSES, YOU LOSE LIVES.
EVENTUALLY, YOU'LL PAY MORE TRYING TO FIX WHAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
FIRE DOESN'T GIVE WARNINGS, HEART ATTACKS, DON'T CARE WHAT THE NAME OF YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT IS.
WHEN YOU CALL, WE COME, TRAINED, EQUIPPED,
[00:30:02]
AND READY BECAUSE WE'VE TAKEN AN OATH THAT IF YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER, WE'LL RISK OURS TO SAVE IT.THAT'S WHAT $20,000 A WEEK BUYS YOU.
DEDICATED, TRAINED PROFESSIONALS WILLING TO SACRIFICE THEMSELVES FOR YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES.
IF YOU THINK THAT'S NOT WORTH THE COST OF A VENTI STARBUCKS PER CITIZEN PER MONTH, THEN I SINCERELY HOPE YOU NEVER HAVE TO LEARN THE VALUE THE HARD WAY.
BUT DESPITE ALL OF THIS, DESPITE THE HOSTILITY AND THE HALF TRUTHS, WE'VE NEVER WAVERED.
WE'VE KEPT SHOWING UP, WE'VE KEPT ANSWERING YOUR CALLS, AND WE DELIVERED.
SINCE JULY 2024, THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS NOT LOST A SINGLE DOLLARS WORTH OF PROPERTY TO FIRE.
HOMES AND BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN PROTECTED.
WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING THE CITY ASKED OF US AND MORE, QUIETLY, HUMBLY, BECAUSE THAT'S THE JOB.
IMAGINE OUR DISBELIEF WHEN WE SAW THE PROPOSED AGREEMENT THAT'S BEEN DRAFTED.
AN AGREEMENT CREATED WITHOUT OUR INPUT, BY A TEAM WITH NO MODERN INDUSTRY KNOWLEDGE, NO OPERATIONAL INSIGHT, AND NO INTEREST IN THE PROFESSIONALS WHO MADE THIS DEPARTMENT WHAT IT IS.
LET ME BE CLEAR, THIS AGREEMENT IS MULTIPLE STEPS BACKWARDS.
IT UNDERMINES EVERYTHING WE'VE BUILT.
IT GIVES AWAY OPERATIONAL CONTROL.
IT GUTS THE VERY HEART OF THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU APPROVE THIS AGREEMENT IN ITS CURRENT FORM, YOU'RE NOT JUST DISMANTLING A HIGH PERFORMING TEAM, YOU ARE ENDANGERING LIVES.
WORST OF ALL, BECAUSE I'M STANDING HERE AS A VETERAN FIRE SERVICE PROFESSIONAL TELLING YOU AS PLAINLY AS I CAN, THIS AGREEMENT IS DANGEROUS.
>> NOT ONLY DID THE TEAM THAT DRAFTED THIS AGREEMENT MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT A SINGLE CURRENT FIRE PROFESSIONAL IN THE ROOM.
WORST OF ALL, THEY BROKE THEIR PROMISE.
THEY TOLD US, THE FIREFIGHTERS AND THE CITIZENS THAT THE PROCESS WOULD BE TRANSPARENT, INCLUSIVE, AND INFORMED BY THOSE WHO HAD LIVE AND BREATHE THIS WORK.
WE BUILT THIS DEPARTMENT WITH OUR HANDS, OUR BLOOD, OUR TIME, OUR COMMITMENT, AND ALL WE ASKED IS THAT YOU SEE US, THAT YOU VALUE WHAT WE'VE DONE, THAT YOU MAKE DECISIONS NOT BASED ON FEAR OR LAWSUITS OR POLITICS, BUT ON SAFETY, TRUTH, AND THE WELL BEING OF THE COMMUNITY.
WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR PRAISE, WE'RE ASKING FOR PARTNERSHIP.
THERE IS STILL TIME TO DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY.
TABLE THIS SHORT TERM AGREEMENT AND FOCUS ON A LONG TERM CONSOLIDATION PLAN THAT INVOLVES THE EXPERTS, INVOLVES YOUR FIREFIGHTERS AND PRIORITIZES PUBLIC SAFETY, NOT POLITICAL CONVENIENCE.
WE'RE ASKING TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION BECAUSE WE ARE THE SOLUTION.
LET US DO WHAT WE WERE CALLED HERE TO DO. THANK YOU.
>> CODY FARLEY, 328 DU PONT STREET, LONG LAKE, CURRENT ASSISTANT CHIEF OF THE LONG WAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
THE AGREEMENT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE CONSIDERING TONIGHT REGARDING FIRE SERVICE IS NOT DANGEROUS.
WHAT IS DANGEROUS IS HAVING THESE TWO CITIES ATTEMPT TO OPERATE TWO SEPARATE FIRE DEPARTMENTS IN OUR ONE LARGER COMMUNITY.
IF WE CONTINUE DOWN THAT ROAD, BOTH DEPARTMENTS WILL STRUGGLE, BOTH DEPARTMENTS WILL FALL SHORT OF THEIR EXPECTATIONS.
THIS COMMUNITY NEEDS ONE DEPARTMENT SERVING THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, WHICH IS THE DIRECTION YOU ARE CURRENTLY HEADED, SO THANK YOU FOR TAKING ON THAT CHALLENGE.
>> ANYONE ELSE? DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU'RE FROM.
JUST TELL US WHERE YOU'RE FROM.
SITTING HERE LISTENING AND AS A LONG TIME ADVOCATE OF BRINGING THE TWO FIRE DEPARTMENTS BACK TOGETHER.
I WILL SAY THAT I DO AGREE WITH SOMETHING THAT SHAY SAID JUST NOW, WHICH IS THAT YOU WILL PAY MORE TO FIX WHAT WAS NEVER BROKEN, WHICH WAS THE PROBLEM WITH ORONO FIRE FROM THE START.
THE CITY OF ORONO WAS NEVER ABLE TO POINT TO AN ISSUE WITH THE SERVICE THAT WAS BEING PROVIDED BY THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT JUSTIFIED THE NEED TO SPEND TENS OF MILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS FOR DECREASED PUBLIC SERVICE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT OR ANY INPUT.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT.
I DISAGREE WITH HIM THAT ANYONE HAS DISPARAGED FIREFIGHTERS.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYONE DISPARAGING FIREFIGHTERS.
THEY ARE DISPARAGING HOW WE GOT HERE.
THE DIVISIVE NATURE OF TEARING APART THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT FROM THE JUMP,
[00:35:01]
WITHOUT CONSULTING ANY EXTERNAL EXPERTS, BY STEALING THEIR FIREFIGHTERS, BY STEALING THEIR CHIEF, BY OUTRIGHT BUYING TRUCKS FROM UNDERNEATH THEM, AND ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ALLOWED THE CITY OF ORONO TO BE HELD IN CONTEMPT OF COURSE TWICE FOR VIOLATION OF THEIR CONTRACT.HE SAID, IT UNDERMINES EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE BUILT ORONO FIRE.
ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, UNDERMINES EVERYTHING THAT LONG LAKE FIRE HAS BUILT AND THE PARTNERSHIP THAT THEY BUILT WITH THIS CITY FOR NEARLY 25 YEARS AND THE SERVICE THAT THEY DID TO THEY'VE DONE FOR THIS COMMUNITY FOR 110 YEARS.
IT WAS A HOSTILE TAKEOVER OF 110-YEAR-OLD DEPARTMENT.
HE'S GOING TO SIT UP HERE AND SAY THAT THERE WERE PEOPLE OUT THERE BASING DECISIONS ON FEAR MONGERING AND LIES, WHILE HE COMES UP HERE AND DOES THE EXACT SAME THING TONIGHT IS SO DISINGENUOUS, I FEEL SICK TO MY STOMACH.
ANYBODY? I'M SO SORRY. I'M GOING TO KEEP GOING.
ANYBODY WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW KNOWS THAT THE PAID ON CALL STAFFING NUMBERS ARE WELL BELOW WHAT THE CITY NEEDS FOR THE NAVAR AREA.
THERE ARE EIGHT PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS, THE MAJORITY OF WHICH LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE CALL AREA.
ON AVERAGE 30% OF FIREFIGHTERS, PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS RESPOND TO THOSE CALLS, WHICH MEANS IF THERE'S SOMEONE HAVING A HEART ATTACK IN NAVAR RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE GOING TO GET, THREE FIREFIGHTERS AT MOST FROM OUTSIDE OF THE CALL AREA TO RESPOND TO THEM, AND THEY KNOW IT.
THEY'RE GOING TO SIT UP HERE AND TALK ABOUT HOW WE NEED MORE TIME TO TRAIN TOGETHER AND ALL OF THIS STUFF.
WELL, ALL THE WHILE, THEY WERE STACK BUILDING THIS DEPARTMENT, BRICK BY BRICK AND FAST TRACKED SERVICE TO THE NAVAR AREA WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY. THEY DIDN'T HAVE A BOAT.
THEY WERE BORROWING TANKER TRUCKS.
THEY WERE UNDERSTAFFED BY TWO-THIRDS, AND THEY KNEW IT.
THEY FUMBLED THE LAKE SHORE COVERAGE THAT WAS HAPPENING ON LAKE MINNETONKA THAT CAUSED A HUGE BLUNDER AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
THEY SAT UP HERE AND JUSTIFIED AND SAID, WE'VE GOT THIS.
WE'VE GOT THIS. WE'VE GOT THIS.
WHY? ALL THE WHILE, THEY WERE PRESENTING THE PUBLIC WITH FALSE DATA TO JUSTIFY THE DEPARTMENT THAT THEY BUILT.
THEY WERE PRESENTING THE DEPARTMENT WITH A FALSE NARRATIVE THAT THEY WERE PREPARED WITH EQUIPMENT.
WHEN HALF OF THEIR EQUIPMENT, THEY HAVEN'T EVEN RECEIVED ONLY A FEW MONTHS AGO.
THEY'RE GOING TO SIT UP HERE AND SAY THAT THE LONG LAKE FIREFIGHTERS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO USE THIS EQUIPMENT AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT THEY'VE ONLY HAD FOR A FEW MONTHS THEMSELVES.
NEARLY ALL OF THE PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS, ALL EIGHT ARE SERVING ON THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT TODAY AND HAVE TRAINED ON THAT EQUIPMENT AND WITH THIS CREW.
ALL OF THE FIREFIGHTERS WHO ARE DUTY CREW AND PART TIME FIREFIGHTERS THAT CURRENTLY WORK FOR THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT COULD LEAVE TOMORROW AND WORK FOR ANY OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENT AND BE TRAINED IN TO WORK WITH THEM AND LEARN THAT EQUIPMENT AND BE MORE THAN ADEQUATE FIREFIGHTERS FOR ANY DEPARTMENT.
IF THEY BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE, WHICH THEY SAY, THEN THEY BELIEVE IT'S TRUE THAT WE CAN BRING THESE TWO DEPARTMENTS BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.
WE CAN HAVE THE STAFF, THE NUMBER OF STAFF THAT IS ACTUALLY FINALLY ADEQUATE TO SERVE THIS COMMUNITY, BECAUSE EVEN UNDER JAMES VAN ALE, WHEN HE WAS THE CHIEF, WHICH HE HAS TESTIFIED IN COURT, THEY NEVER MET THEIR FULL STAFFING NUMBERS, AND NOW WE WILL BY BRINGING THEM TOGETHER.
TO SIT UP HERE AND SAY THAT IT'S GOING TO RISK LIVES WHEN NOW THE NAVAR AREA IS GOING TO BE COVERED BY 40 PLUS FIREFIGHTERS BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 10:00 PM AND 6:00 AM IS DISINGENUOUS, AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY FEAR MONGERING.
AND IT'S WRONG. THEY'RE GOING TO SIT UP HERE AND CRY AND WHINE AND SAY THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING AFTER FIREFIGHTERS, NO ONE IS.
WE'RE ALL SAYING THEY'LL BE BETTER TOGETHER. ALL OF US.
WE KNOW THEY'LL BE BETTER WITH LONG LAKE FIRE. THEY ALL WILL.
AS FAR AS SOME OF THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE, ONE OF THE THINGS I COULD NOT AGREE WITH MORE.
I HAVE BEEN SCREAMING FROM THE ROOFTOPS TO ANYONE THAT WILL LISTEN TO ME IS THAT THERE ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TO BE A MEDIATOR BROUGHT BACK IN FOR THESE FIREFIGHTERS.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THEM OVER THE COURSE OF YEARS UNDER THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION HAS CAUSED MORALE PROBLEMS AND HAS CAUSED ISSUES BETWEEN THE FIREFIGHTERS THAT WERE ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY.
NONE OF THIS HAD TO BE DONE THIS WAY.
[00:40:01]
NONE OF IT. THEY DESERVE TO HAVE SUPPORT.THIS COMMUNITY DESERVES TO HAVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THEY DESERVE.
THEY'RE GOING TO GET IT WHEN YOU GUYS CAN BRING THESE FIRE DEPARTMENTS BACK TOGETHER AND DEVELOP A LONG TERM SOLUTION THAT BENEFITS EVERYONE IN THIS COMMUNITY.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE]
>> ANYONE ELSE? [NOISE] YES, SIR.
I'LL COME UP ON 18 YEAR VETERAN AT THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
I'M CURRENTLY A CAPTAIN OF THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT. I'LL BE BRIEF.
WHEN YOU GUYS RAN FOR OFFICE, I WAS UNDER PROMISE BASICALLY TO COME UP WITH THE ONE DEPARTMENT SOLUTION.
NO ARGUMENT THERE. THAT'S THE PATH FORWARD.
WHEN YOU GUYS CAME AND TALKED TO US AT THE ONE TIME IN ORONO FIRE, PRIOR TO BEING SWORN IN, YOU MENTIONED USING A THIRD PARTY TO COME UP WITH THE SOLUTION FOR THIS.
IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THAT'S HAPPENED.
HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ANY OF YOU PEOPLE SINCE.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RISKING LIVES, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY ORONO FIRE CAN, IN A TIME EFFECTIVE MANNER, SERVE THE CITIZENS OF THE NAVAR AREA, IS BECAUSE LONG LAKE SUED YOU GUYS TO PREVENT US FROM OCCUPYING A BUILDING THAT YOU OWN 100%.
LET'S JUST CLEAR THAT UP RIGHT NOW.
BUT WHAT I WILL SAY, AND I SAID TO YOU GUYS WHEN YOU CAME AND VISITED, THAT NO MATTER HOW WE GOT HERE, WE'RE HERE NOW.
YOU BEING THE BIGGEST SQUARE MILEAGE, BIGGEST POPULATION, BIGGEST WALLET, YOU SHOULD BE CALLING THE SHOTS HERE AND NOT CAPITULATING THE CITY OF LONG LAKE.
YOU SHOULD BE BRINGING THEM INTO THIS ORGANIZATION, NOT VICE VERSA.
I DON'T CARE HOW YOU GUYS GOT TO THIS AGREEMENT, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE I'LL ECHO WHAT THE CHIEF SAID, THAT THIS SEEMS LIKE A STEP BACKWARDS.
SEEMS LIKE PUTTING THINGS BACK THE WAY THEY WERE AND CAUSING MORE.
WELL, I'M GOING TO GET EMOTIONAL HERE. I'LL JUST LEAVE IT THAT.
I THINK YOU GUYS ARE MAKING A MISTAKE.
YOU'RE DOING AN ASS BACKWARDS. THANK YOU.
>> ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS WHY DON'T WE GO TO THE ITEM NUMBER 3 THAT WAS PULLED OUT OF
[3. Amend Annual Appointments to add Commission Ex Officios]
THE CONSENT AGENDA? YOU PULLED IT OUT?>> YES. THANK YOU, MAYOR. JUST A HOEING ISSUE HERE.
I NOTICED THAT ON THE AMENDED APPOINTMENT AND COMMISSION SCHEDULE.
MAY 6TH, WE HAVE COUNCILMEMBER BARRETT ATTENDING THAT MEETING, AND IT OCCURS TO ME THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE WANT TO REORDER, GIVEN THAT COUNCILMEMBER BARRETT WON'T BE REPORTING BACK TO COUNCIL ON THAT MEETING, SO IT'S JUST A CONSIDERATION OF BEST USE OF OUR TIME.
I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE BETTER RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND REPORT BACK BETWEEN PARKS AND COUNCIL.
I'M THINKING FOR LONG TERM HERE IT MAY MAKE MORE SENSE TO REORDER THAT.
>> DO YOU HAVE A SUGGESTION AS TO WHAT WE SHOULD REORDER IT TO, OR DO YOU WANT -?
>> I'D LIKE TO HAVE YOURSELF DO?
>> NO. IT'S SIMPLY A MATTER OF UNDERSTANDING THAT I'M NOT INVESTED.
ANYBODY COULD DO IT, AND I'M JUST WANTING TO ENSURE THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE TIME WELL SPENT.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THAT, CERTAINLY, AM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT WITH COMMUNICATIONS, RELATIONSHIP BUILDING, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IS THAT THE BEST USE OF EVERYONE'S TIME, GIVEN THAT COUNCILMEMBER BARRETT WON'T BE SHARING OUT OR COMING BACK TO THE MAY 13TH MEETING ABOUT THAT?
>> I WOULD LIKE TO RECONS THAT YOU ATTEND, AND I'LL TAKE MY NAME UP.
MY NAME WAS NOT PUT ON THERE BY MYSELF AND NO INPUT. [OVERLAPPING]
>> I UNDERSTAND. I'M NOT INVESTED.
IT WAS JUST SIMPLY WANTING TO CREATE A PROCESS WHERE BY THE COUNCILMEMBERS WHO WERE CHOOSING TO STAY ARE GOING TO BE SHARING OUT.
I'M NOT INVESTED IN GOING TO THAT MEETING.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND, CERTAINLY, I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO USE EVERYBODY'S TIME WISELY.
>> COUNCILMEMBER BARRETT, IF YOU'D LIKE TO ATTEND THE MEETING.
I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO ORGANIZE THIS GIVEN THAT WE JUST HAD A NICE WORK SESSION WITH PARKS, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, THAT SIMPLY IT'S NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL.
[00:45:01]
IT'S ONLY A SUGGESTION. THAT'S ALL.>> YOU TOOK MY WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH.
>> WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS OR TO CHANGE IT?
>> I HAVE NO INPUT. I DON'T REALLY CARE.
>> ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO MAKE A MOTION?
>> SURE. I CAN MAKE A MOTION TO REORDER THE SCHEDULE.
I HAVEN'T LOOKED AHEAD TO SEE, BUT I'M CERTAINLY I CAN MAKE A MOTION TO SIMPLY MOVE THESE UP.
>> ME TAKING THAT ONE AND THEN MOVING COUNCILMEMBER PERSIAN UP, JUST SHIFTING IT ALL UP SO THAT THAT DATE IS COVERED.
AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE PREFERENCE THERE.
I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO HAVE BEST USE OF EVERYONE'S TIME.
>> I'D ALSO NOTE THAT WE MET WITH THE PARK COMMISSION IN ADVANCE OF THIS AT A WORK SESSION, AND THERE WAS TALK AT THAT MEETING OF MAYBE HAVING PARK COMMISSION MEETINGS MORE FREQUENTLY.
THIS SCHEDULE MAYBE COMING BACK TO US.
BUT YOU'VE MOVED TO JUST MOVE EVERYBODY UP ON THAT SCHEDULE.
>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
>> ALL THOSE OPPOSED SAME SIGN?
>> MOTION CARRIES 4-0 WITH AN ABSTENTION.
MS. BARRETT. LET'S MOVE TO THE PRESENTATION BY THE STUBBS BAY LAKE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS.
[12. Stubbs Bay Lake Improvement Districts (LID)]
DO YOU HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE?>> GOOD EVENING. I AM ERIC EVENSON.
I'LL BE JOINED UP HERE WITH KARINA CASEY.
WE WILL ALSO BE JOINED UP HERE BY LEE HERN.
LEE HERN IS ALSO A STUBBS BAY RESIDENT AND HAS BEEN WORKING WITH KARINA ON TRYING TO GET THE STUBBS BAY LID ASSOCIATION PUT TOGETHER.
I AM WITH THE LAKE MINNETONKA ASSOCIATION, AND MY ROLE WAS SIMPLY BASICALLY TO HELP THE CITIZENS ON THE BAY TO FORM THE LAKE ASSOCIATION.
I FEEL A LITTLE BIT HERE LIKE I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN MATH TO EINSTEIN, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ON YOUR BOARD ON THIS ISSUE.
LIDS ARE NOT NEW TO THE CITY OF ORONO.
YOU DO HAVE A LID THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW, THE CARMAN'S BAY LAKE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT.
THERE'S ALSO A LAKE IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT ON ST.
ALBANS BAY AFTER MEETING WITH ADAM AND MAGGIE AND YOURSELF, MAYOR, BECAUSE THIS IS A NEW COUNCIL.
EVEN THOUGH THE LIDS ARE NOT NEW TO THE CITY, IT MIGHT BE NEW TO SOME OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS, SO WE DO WANT TO GIVE YOU A UPDATE ON THEM.
TONIGHT IS REALLY JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO LAY OUT WHAT A LID IS AND WHAT THE CITIZENS ON THE LAKE HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH AND TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE.
WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO TURN THINGS OVER TO KARINA.
>> THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOU FOR PUTTING US ON THE AGENDA.
WE'RE JUST GOING TO WALK THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT A LID IS AND WHY IT'S NEEDED FOR STUBBS BAY AND THEN ALSO WHERE WE ARE IN THE PROCESS.
IF WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE THERE, OR IS THERE? MAYBE NOT.
[LAUGHTER] LIDS ARE VERY MUCH LIKE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS.
IF YOU OWN THE HOME ON A LAKE OR AROUND A POOL, AND YOU WANT TO MANAGE THAT POOL, KEEP IT SAFE, CLEAR AND AND CLEANED UP.
YOU PAY SOMETHING EVERY YEAR FOR THAT PROCESS.
MUCH LIKE TAKING CARE OF A LAKE AND THE INVASIVE WEEDS THAT HAVE OVERCOME OF THE NATIVE WEEDS ON THE BAY, THE HOMEOWNERS REALLY WANT TO TAKE CARE OF OUR LAKE.
IT IS INITIATED BY THE CITIZEN PETITION.
WE ARE WELL INTO THAT PROCESS AND YOU HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM ALREADY.
THE STUBBS BAY THE LID IS ONLY USED FOR BAY WIDE INVASIVE WEED AND INVASIVE AQUATICS AND WATER QUALITY MANAGEMENT.
IT IS NOT TO DESTROY ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT OR TAKE CARE OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT, ANYTHING ON LAND.
IT IS JUST FOR THE AQUATIC MANAGEMENT OF INVASIVES.
ALL PROPERTY TAXES, WHO OWN PROPERTY OR HAVE DEEDED ACCESS OR BECOME MEMBERS OF THE LID,
[00:50:05]
WE ALREADY HAVE, AS MENTIONED, TWO LIDS, AND I'VE TALKED TO BOTH OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS PERSONALLY.CITY'S, ORONO WOULD SERVE AS OUR FISCAL AGENT.
OTHERWISE, WE MANAGE THE LID AS RESIDENTS, HOMEOWNERS ON THE LAKE, ON STUBBS BAY, WE MANAGE IT WITH A BOARD AND DO THAT COMMUNICATION.
NEXT LIDE. WHY IS IT NEEDED? WELL, YOU'LL SEE IN A SECOND, THERE'S REALLY A TERRIBLE PROBLEM WITH CURLYLEAF PONDWEED AND EURASIAN WATER MILFOIL AND I'VE HEARD THERE'S ZEBRA MUSSELS, TOO.
IT'S AN ISSUE, AND IT HASN'T BEEN TAKEN CARE OF IN THE MANY YEARS, WHICH AS YOU CAN SEE WHEN WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THAT IT'S A BAD ISSUE.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WE DON'T GET TO ENJOY THE BEAUTY OF THE WATER.
WE DON'T GET TO SWIM IN THE AREAS.
BUT FURTHERMORE, FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL REASON, IS IT'S CHOKING OUT THE NATURAL WEEDS THAT BELONG IN MINNESOTA.
VOLUNTARY FUND RAISING HAS HAPPENED LAST YEAR, WE DID IT.
WE DID A GREAT JOB WITH THAT AND WAS ABLE TO TREAT THE LAKE.
OBVIOUSLY, THE DNR WAS INVOLVED IN THAT AND APPROVED ALL THAT.
BUT WE CAN'T DO THAT EVERY YEAR.
IT'S JUST NOT SUSTAINABLE FOR SOMEBODY TO GO DRUMMING UP $35,000 OR WHATEVER IT WOULD BE EACH YEAR.
A LID PROVIDES THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO MANAGE THAT ON AN ONGOING BASIS AND AN EQUITABLE BASIS.
ANYBODY WHO WAS GOING TO ENJOY THE BAY OR LIVE ON THE BAY WOULD ENJOY THAT BENEFIT? THE INITIAL COST OF THE LID WOULD BE ABOUT $200 PER PROPERTY.
THAT'S JUST BASED ON AN AVERAGE NUMBER OF LINEAR FOOTAGE ON STUBBS BAY.
EACH HOMEOWNER, IF THEY WOULD BE ASSESSED EACH YEAR, WOULD PAY FOR THE TOTAL TREATMENT OF OUR BAY EACH YEAR.
FOR SOME YEAR WE MIGHT NEED TO DO MORE ON CURLYLEAF.
THE NEXT YEAR, WE MIGHT HAVE TO DO MORE ON MILFOIL OR ZEBRA MUSSELS COME OUT.
THAT'S THE POINT OF THE LID, IS THAT WE WOULD MANAGE THAT ALONGSIDE WITH THE DNRS SUPPORT AND ASSISTANCE.
WATERSHEDS AND THE LM, LAKE MINNETONKA CONSERVATION DISTRICT DO NOT FUND INVASIVE WEED MANAGEMENT, SO IT'S BAD AND IT'S NOT BEING CONTROLLED.
I THINK WE'RE FORTUNATE THAT THE OWNER OR THE STUBBS BAY RESIDENTS WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THE LAKE.
THE DNR ONLY PROVIDES A SMALL AMOUNT OF GRANTS.
THIS IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO IS THE HORRIBLE PROBLEM OF CURLYLEAF PONDWEED.
AGAIN, THAT IS JUST LAST YEAR.
THAT IS NOT A NATIVE PLANT TO MINNESOTA.
IT'S THICK, AND THOSE BIGGER CIRCLES MEAN IT'S REALLY THICK, SO IT'S A PROBLEM. THE NEXT SLIDE.
THERE ARE 63 PROPERTIES ON STUBBS BAY WHO HAVE A LAKE SHORE OR DEEDED ACCESS.
THAT'S THE COUNT, AS YOU CAN SEE AROUND, AND THIS IS PART OF OUR LID PLAN.
HOW DO WE FORM A LID? IT REQUIRES A SIMPLE MAJORITY, WHICH IS THE STATE.
THE STATUTE FOR LIDS, REQUIRES A SIMPLE, 51%.
WE'VE GOT 38 PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY SIGNED THE PETITION.
WE'LL CONTINUE TO KNOCK ON DOORS AND THROW EMAILS OUT THERE AND INFORM PEOPLE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING CAUSE WE'D LOVE EVERYBODY 100%, BUT THAT'S NOT FEASIBLE.
BUT WE'VE MET THE MINIMUM FOR CERTAIN.
IT DOES REQUIRE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND CITY APPROVAL.
IT NEEDS TO BE APPROVED BY THE MINNESOTA DNR.
WE'RE ALREADY IN CONTACT WITH THEM IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THAT.
MANAGED BY THE BOARD, AS I MENTIONED, AND I'VE GOT MANY, MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED AND HAVE SIGNED PETITIONS WHO WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS, SO THERE WILL BE NO SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE OUR BAY SPARKLING.
THE FIRST BOARD WOULD BE APPOINTED BY YOU AND THEN ELECTED BY LID MEMBERS THEREAFTER.
[00:55:01]
AND WE'VE ALREADY SENT OUR INITIAL MAJORITY PETITIONS.YOU ALREADY HAVE THOSE IN HAND TO VERIFY AND CERTIFY.
THEN MAY 12 IS JUST A MEETING WHERE YOU WILL BE TALKING ABOUT TO ACCEPT OR REJECT THESE PETITIONS AND SIGNATURES.
WE WILL CERTAINLY FORWARD ANY MORE THAT WE GET BETWEEN NOW AND THEN TO YOU.
THEN THERE WILL BE THE SENDING OUT THE PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE.
YOU GUYS ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THAT PROCESS.
JUNE 9 IS OUR BIG COUNCIL MEETING WHERE WE WOULD HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND APPROVE THE FORMATION OF THE LID, AND WE'D BE HAVING OBVIOUSLY THE APPROVAL OF THE DNR AT THAT TIME FOR YOU AS WELL.
>> ANY QUESTIONS FROM COUNSEL?
>> YEAH, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
>> THANK YOU. THAT'S A LOT OF WORK PUT INTO THAT PRESENTATION.
I'M REFERRING TO THE ATTACHMENT D TO THIS AGENDA ITEM, WHICH IS THE STUBBS BAY AQUATIC PLANT SURVEY.
YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT THERE IS THE INVASIVES THAT ARE THE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM ARE THE CURLY LEAF POND WEED AND THE EURASIAN MILFOIL.
I'M TRYING TO RECONCILE THE SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM WITH WHAT'S ON THE SURVEY.
MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME WITH THAT.
THE CURLYLEAF PONDWEED HAS A 4% OCCURRENCE, AND LITERAL DENSITY IS LESS THAN 0.1, I ASSUME THAT'S PERCENT, OR MAYBE IT'S A SCALE OF SOMETHING, BUT LESS THAN 0.1%.
THEN THE EURASIAN WATER MILFOIL SIMILARLY IS 11% OCCURRENCE.
HOW DO YOU SAY SIGNIFICANT AND THEN USE THAT DATA? I'M HAVING A HARD TIME RECONCILING THAT.
>> YOU MIGHT KNOW HOW TO MEASURE THAT.
>> I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT DOING THIS EARLIER, BUT I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB INTRODUCING MYSELF.
I AM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE LAKE MINNETONKA ASSOCIATION.
PRIOR TO THAT, I USED TO RUN THE LAKE OR THE MINNEHAHA CREEK WATERSHED DISTRICT.
I WAS THERE ADMINISTRATOR FOR MANY YEARS.
PRIOR TO THAT, I DID PARKS PLANNING AND NATURAL RESOURCES PLANNING FOR DAKOTA COUNTY.
I'VE ALSO BEEN A ZONING DIRECTOR IN A FEW COUNTIES, TOO.
IT'S AN AREA THAT I'M SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH.
BUT NOW YOU'RE GETTING INTO THE WEEDS. [LAUGHTER].
>> IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE HARD FOR ME TO ANSWER THAT.
ALSO, I WANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF JIM'S COMMENTS HERE, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK THERE IS SOME CONFUSION ABOUT WITH LIDS, AND I'LL GET TO THAT AFTER I TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
I THINK THE BEST WAY TO LOOK AT THAT IS IF YOU EVER USE THE LAKE, YOU KNOW IT'S WEEDING.
CURLYLEAF PONDWEED IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.
IN FACT, IT IS ONE OF THE WORST BAYS ON THE LAKE WHEN IT COMES TO THE PONDWEED.
WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH PERCENTAGES AND SUCH, I CAN'T TELL YOU.
I'D HAVE TO BRING UP THE PLANT SPECIALIST UP HERE, BECAUSE I'M OF TRUSTING THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL WHO DOES THIS AND THE PEOPLE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, WHERE EXPERTS IN PLANT HEALTH AND LAKE HEALTH CAN REALLY ANSWER IT.
BUT LET ME SHARE SOMETHING HERE WITH YOU.
HAVE YOU SEEN OUR NEWSLETTER, ON THE LAKE NEWSLETTER.
IF YOU LIVE ON THE LAKE, IF YOU GET IT, IT'S OUR ASSOCIATION NEWSLETTER.
I WROTE AN ARTICLE HERE. IT HASN'T COME OUT YET.
THIS IS NOT EVEN OFF ON THE PRESS YET.
BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN, PEOPLE ASK, HOW ARE THESE WORKING, ARE THESE LAKE TREATMENTS EFFECTIVE AT ALL? ORIGINALLY, WE DID NOT HAVE THE SUPPORT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES TO DO THESE TREATMENTS.
THEY LOOKED AT THIS AND SAID, WAIT A MINUTE.
IN FACT, WHEN I WAS RUNNING THE WATERSHED DISTRICT, I STOPPED THE TREATMENTS.
MY PREDECESSOR, THE NOLOGIST BY THE NAME OF DICK OSGOOD, WERE ACTUALLY GOOD FRIENDS, ASKED ME TO SHUT OFF THE DAM SO HE COULD TREAT GRAYS BAY.
I SAID, OH, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
IN FACT, IF YOU TRY TO TREAT GRAYS BAY, I WILL CONTACT MY CONNECTION AT THE STAR TRIBUNE AND I WILL HAVE A PICTURE OF A GUY IN A BIG BOAT LAYING BACK TAKEN BACK A FEW DRINKS, SUPERIMPOSED NEXT TO A PICTURE OF SOME LITTLE KIDS BELOW THE MINNEHAHA FALL SWIMMING DOWN THERE.
IT WORKED FOR A WHILE, AND THEN HE ACTUALLY WE TALKED, AND I GOT TO UNDERSTAND THE BENEFITS OF THE PROGRAM.
[01:00:02]
BUT LET ME TELL YOU, HERE'S WHAT'S HAPPENED.THE DNR SHIFTED FROM NOT SUPPORTING THESE TO VERY MUCH SUPPORTING THESE BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE DOING IS RESTORING THE QUALITY OF LAKE MINNETONKA.
WE'RE RESTORING THE ECOLOGY OF LAKE MINNETONKA.
THE EURASIAN WATER MILFOIL, WHAT THEY TALK ABOUT PERCENT OCCURRENCE, AND THIS IS WHERE I CAN'T ADDRESS YOUR QUESTION SPECIFICALLY.
I CAN ADDRESS IT BECAUSE I'VE LOOKED AT IT FOR GRAYS BAY.
BACK IN 2007, EVERY TIME YOU THREW OUT A SAMPLER, EVERY TIME YOU THREW OUT A RAKE, YOU WOULD PULL THAT BACK,86% OF THE TIME YOU PULLED BACK EURASIAN WATER MILFOIL. LAST YEAR?
>> IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO STUBBS BAY, THOUGH, SO.
>> BECAUSE THAT'S IN GRAYS BAY.
>> THE SYSTEMS ARE VERY SIMILAR.
ALL THESE INVASIVE PLANTS HAVE GROWN ACROSS THE LAKE.
YOU ARE DEALING WITH VERY SIMILAR SYSTEMS IN ALL OF THESE BAYS.
I CAN GO WHETHER IT BE GRAYS BAY, CARMAN'S BAY, ST. ALBANS BAY, THEY'RE ALL VERY SIMILAR.
>> YOU HAVE DATA TO SUPPORT THAT?
>> I'D LOVE TO SEE IT. I'M NOT DOUBTING.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK ABOUT THIS LOGICALLY.
>> OKAY. I THINK AS I GET THROUGH THIS HERE, SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF THE EURASIAN WATER MILFOIL.
NOW, IN STUBBS BAY, EURASIAN WATER MILFOIL IS NOT THE DOMINANT INVASIVE.
THE DOMINANT INVASIVE IS CURLYLEAF PONDWEED. THAT'S THE DOMINANT.
WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAMPLES, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION SPECIFICALLY WITHOUT SPENDING SOME TIME ON IT, BUT LET ME TELL YOU.
HERE'S THE OTHER THING THAT REALLY COMES UP THAT IS IMPORTANT AND WHY THE THE MINNESOTA AQUATIC INVASIVE SPECIES RESEARCH CENTER SUPPORTS IT AND WHY THE DNR SUPPORTS IT.
BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS A RESURGENCE IN THE NUMBER OF NATIVE SPECIES GROWING BACK AGAIN IN THE LAKE WHERE THEY DIDN'T EXIST.
WE'RE SEEING THE EMERGENT SPECIES COMING BACK QUITE A BIT.
>> LET ME DISAGREE. [INAUDIBLE]
>> THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO INTERJECT AND THEN PLEASE CONTINUE BECAUSE I REALLY VALUE WHAT YOU'RE SHARING.
TO DESCRIBE POST TREATMENT OF ELIMINATING 15% OF AN OCCURRENCE THAT'S CUMULATIVELY BETWEEN THE TWO INVASIVE SPECIES, MENTIONING THAT THIS DOESN'T COVER THE NON-INVASIVE.
IT DOESN'T COVER THE NATIVE SPECIES, CORRECT? DI I UNDERSTAND RIGHT?
>> THIS DOES NOT COVER THE NATIVES.
>> STUBBS BAY ISN'T GOING TO BE SPARKLING BECAUSE OF THIS BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE EVERYTHING ELSE.
>> NO, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
IN FACT, THERE IS GREAT INFORMATION.
THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA HAS DONE A FAIR AMOUNT OF RESEARCH IN THIS MATTER.
AND THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA AND THE RESEARCHERS WOULD BE HAPPY TO TELL YOU THAT ONCE YOUR INVASIVE SPECIES ARE GONE, AND IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE FOR GOD'S SAKE.
ONCE YOUR NATIVE SPECIES ARE GONE.
>> EXCUSE ME. I APPRECIATE THE PASSION.
>> I KNOW, BUT I'D LIKE TO [OVERLAPPING].
>> IF WE COULD PULL THE CONVERSATION A LITTLE BIT.
I REALLY AND SINCERELY DO APPRECIATE THE INPUT.
AND I'M ASKING QUESTIONS THAT THE REST OF THE PUBLIC MIGHT ALSO HAVE.
AND THIS IS NOW YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE ANSWERS THAT MIGHT ALLEVIATE ANY CONCERNS.
AND I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF WE COULD ALL JUST [OVERLAPPING].
>> NO, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.
>> I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.
AND I DO APOLOGIZE IF I GET A LITTLE EXCITED ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING I'VE BEEN DOING FOR SO LONG AND SOMETHING I HAVE SEEN SUCH POSITIVE RESULTS COME BACK FROM.
>> I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE DATA AS A COMPANION TO THE REST OF THE DATA SO THAT AN INFORMED DECISION CAN BE MADE.
IF I COULD MOVE ON TO, THERE WAS A CHART IN THE PRESENTATION THAT IT WAS THE DENSITY CHART FROM MAY OF 2024.
CHARTS ARE INFORMATIVE, BUT MOSTLY ONLY IF IT'S RELATIVE TO SOMETHING.
I DON'T KNOW IF MAY OF 2023 WAS ANY DIFFERENT OR MAY OF 2003 WAS ANY DIFFERENT.
[01:05:03]
IT HAS TO BE RELATIVE TO SOMETHING.IF IT'S AN INVASIVE SPECIES AND IT'S OUT OF CONTROL, YOU WOULD EXPECT IT TO CREATE A DIFFERENT RESULT IN THE CHART.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE IT A RELATIVE COMPARISON SO WE CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND THE TRAJECTORY OF THIS INVASIVENESS?
>> WELL, AGAIN, THESE SURVEYS COST MONEY TO GO OUT THERE AND DO.
BACK IN 2023, THERE WEREN'T SURVEYS EXISTED PRIOR TO THAT.
HOWEVER, THE SURVEYS THAT WERE DONE ORIGINALLY TO ESTABLISH THIS PROGRAM.
AGAIN, WHY WE SEE SUPPORT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES IN THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA IS BECAUSE WE DO KNOW THAT DENSITIES, LIKE YOU WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IN BOTH THE CURLYLEAF PONDWEED AND THE EURASIAN WATERMILFOIL, THESE PLANTS WILL BASICALLY CAPTURE THE SUNLIGHT, PREVENT THE SUN FROM GETTING DOWN AND LETTING THE NATIVE PLANTS GROW.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE, WHAT WE'RE SEEING ARE POSITIVE GAINS IN THE NATURAL RESOURCE THE NATIVE PLANTS RETURNING AND THE ECOLOGY RETURNING.
NOW, IN THE CASE OF CURLYLEAF PONDWEED, I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN PROJECTS.
WE DID A PROJECT WHERE WE TREATED CURLYLEAF PONDWEED ON ONE OF THE LAKES IN THE WATERSHED DISTRICT, AND WHAT YOU SEE ARE CHANGES IN WATER CLARITY, TOO.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CURLYLEAF PONDWEED DIES? IT DIES IN ABOUT THE SAME TIME, THE WATER IS REALLY WARMING UP TOWARDS LATE SUMMER.
THAT BASICALLY, LIKE ANY OTHER ROTTING MATERIAL, RETURNS THE PHOSPHORUS INTO THE SYSTEM.. WE SEE ACTUALLY AN INCREASE IN A BUMP OF ALGAE GROWTH WHEN YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING.
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION.
JUST TO CONFIRM, YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING TO COMPARE IT TO AND THAT'S FINE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT. THE CURLYLEAF PONDWEED, IT LOOKS LIKE IF I WERE TO STEP ANYWHERE OFF THE SHORE INTO STUBBS BAY, I WOULD BE CONSUMED WITH CURLYLEAF POND WEED.
YOU'RE DOING DENSITY 1, 2, 3 TO SHOW A DIFFERENCE IN DENSITY.
IS THAT CHART TELLING ME THAT IT'S COMPLETELY THICK THERE, OR IS THAT THEY'RE JUST DIFFERENT SPOTS WITH DIFFERENT DENSITIES AND THE DENSITY MIGHT BE THIS VERSUS THIS?
>> MAY I ADDRESS? I'M LEE HERN.
I'M A 45 YEAR RESIDENT OF STUBBS BAY.
WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT'S VERY EXTENSIVE.
GENERALLY, THESE WEEDS GROW FROM DEPTH OF 15 FEET.
WHAT YOU SEE AROUND THE PERIMETER IS THE DEPTH AT WHICH THESE PLANTS WILL GROW, AND THEY DO GROW.
THE REASON YOU DON'T HAVE A COMPARATIVE FROM A PRIOR YEAR IS BECAUSE CORENA TOOK IT UPON HERSELF TO ORGANIZE THE COMMUNITY AROUND THE LAKE TO DO THIS.
THE RESIDENTS FUNDED THESE SURVEYS, BUT PRIOR TO THAT, THERE WEREN'T ANY FUNDS FOR IT.
THERE WAS NO ORGANIZATION, THERE WAS NO GROUP TO FOSTER THIS IMPROVEMENT IN STUBBS BAY, SO IF YOU'RE ASKING FOR A COMPARATIVE, WE DON'T HAVE IT BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR THAT IT WAS DONE.
>> ALSO, ON OUR TEAM HERE, MARY TUCKER.
SHE'S WITH THE CARMAN'S BAY AND WITH THE LID THERE.
YOU HAD SOME THOUGHTS ON HOW IT'S MEASURED, IS SOME COMMENTARY ON THAT? DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK UP HERE? MIGHT SHED SOME LIGHT ON YOUR QUESTION SPECIFICALLY.
>> HI, I'M MARY TUCKER. I LIVE ON IVY PLACE IN ORONO.
I'M ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS FOR THE CARMAN BAY LID.
I'VE BEEN INVOLVED LIKE CORENAS ORGANIZING VERY GRASSROOTS EFFORT, AND WE FORMED OUR LID IN 2017.
BUT PRIOR TO THAT, IT WAS PROBABLY EIGHT YEARS OF JUST GRASSROOTS EFFORT.
TO LEE'S POINT, MILFOIL GROWS IN 8-10 FOOT BAND, AND THAT'S WHERE BOATS HAVE TROUBLE GETTING OUT, YOU HAVE TROUBLE SWIMMING, SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT ALL OVER THE BAY.
FOR THE DNR, THEY LOOK AT SUCCESS IS UNDER 5%.
ANYTHING OVER THAT IS TROUBLESOME.
JUST LOOKING AT THAT MAP, I THINK TELLS YOU THE STORY.
IF YOU'RE SWIMMING, IF YOU'RE BOATING, THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT CARMAN'S BAY DELINEATION LOOKS LIKE.
[01:10:04]
OUR PONDWEED IN THE SPRING IS NOTORIOUS, SO WE TREAT THAT FIRST.WHAT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IS WE BROUGHT OUR COSTS DOWN WITH CONSISTENT TREATING YEARLY BEFORE WE WOULD HAVE SPIKES OF 60,000 FOR TREATMENT DOWN TO 20.
WHEN YOU HAVE A CONSISTENT MANAGED TREATMENT PROGRAM BY THE DNR, YOU'RE USING LESS CHEMICALS.
IT IS A VERY WELL-MANAGED PLAN THAT'S REGULATED BY THE STATE AND THE DNR.
>> YOU'VE SEEN THE CHANGE IN YOUR?
>> WE HAVE A BOAT LOAD OF BOATS IN OUR BAY ALL SUMMER LONG, BECAUSE YOU CAN SKI, YOU CAN SWIM, GET YOUR BOAT OUT.
IT WAS A VERY THICK MAT FOR YEARS BEFORE WE FORMED OUR LID, AND WE HAD A HANDFUL OF RESIDENTS THAT WERE FUNDING IT, AND IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM FAIR FOR EVERYBODY.
I THINK $200 FOR A RESIDENT IS PROBABLY LESS THAN WHAT YOU PAY FOR LAWN SERVICE.
WE HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL, AND WE THANK THE COUNCIL THAT APPROVED IT BACK IN 2017.
IT IS NOT A TAX-REGULATED ENTITY, IT IS REGULATED BY THE MEMBERS.
>> LIKE A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, BASICALLY?
>> CORRECT. I JUST WANTED TO HAND MIKE.
>> CAN I ASK YOU GUYS, WHAT IS A TREATMENT? YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT TREATMENTS.
WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU DOING? ARE YOU SENDING DIVERS IN TO PULL IT LIKE WE DO WEEDS?
IT'S PHYSICALLY AND ECONOMICALLY, IS NOT FEASIBLE.
>> WHAT CHEMICALS ARE YOU PUTTING INTO THE LAKE?
I REALLY WANT TO TOUCH BASE ON WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE USING.
THE PRIMARY PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE USING IS A PRODUCT CALLED FLURIDONE.
THAT IS A PRODUCT THAT'S BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 1940S, VERY SAFE.
THE OTHER PRODUCTS WE'RE USING IS DIQUAT, ALSO A OLD SCHOOL, PEST HERBICIDE, RATHER.
THAT, THE DNR IS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE US TO USE A DIFFERENT ONE JUST IN ORDER TO VARY IT UP A LITTLE BIT SO WE DON'T GET RESISTANT STRAINS OF MILFOIL OR ANYTHING ELSE OUT THERE.
YOU TREAT WITH THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND YOU GET RESISTANT THINGS.
THEN THE THIRD IS A NEWER PRODUCT CALLED PROCELLACOR.
THAT'S BEEN AROUND, I WANT TO SAY ABOUT 40, 45 YEARS NOW.
WELL-TESTED, WELL-ESTABLISHED, WELL-MONITORED PRODUCTS.
NONE OF THESE PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE USING HAS ANY IMPACT ON FISHERIES, ON PETS ON EVEN THE MACROPHYTES.
THAT WAS WELL-RESEARCHED, AND I'M HAPPY TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH YOU, ON LAKE MINNETONKA, BY THE USGS AND THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS BACK, MAYBE ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO NOW, BUT IT'S PRETTY MUCH BEEN SHOWN TO BE SAFE.
WHAT WE DO NOT ALLOW USE, BUT WE WILL NOT ALLOW USE ON LAKE MINNETONKA, AS ANY PRODUCTS CONTAINING GLYPHOSATE.
THIS IS WHAT YOUR ROUND UP IS, ANYTHING THAT CONTAINS THE GLYPHOSATE.
THERE'S ENOUGH INFORMATION OUT THERE THAT JUST SAYS, WELL, IF THERE'S SOMETHING BETTER TO YOU, WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SAFER THAT WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE SAFE.
THAT'S WHAT WE TALK ABOUT TO USE. THAT'S WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PRODUCTS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THESE ARE NOT LIKE A PESTICIDE, LIKE WHAT YOU USE ON ANTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
PESTICIDES ARE NEUROTOXINS, FOR THE MOST PART.
THESE ARE BASICALLY PRODUCTS THAT INTERRUPT THE PLANT'S ABILITY TO PHOTOSYNTHESIZE, AND THAT'S WHAT EVENTUALLY KILLS THE PLANTS.
THEY'RE ALSO PUT ON AT OR BELOW RECOMMENDED LEVELS.
WE FIND THAT THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE BY THE UNIVERSITY AND BY OUR PLANT APPLICATORS HAVE IDENTIFIED WHAT REALLY WORKS WELL HERE ON LAKE MINNETONKA.
OUR GOAL IS ACTUALLY TO USE AS LITTLE PRODUCT AS WE POSSIBLY CAN, BECAUSE WHY PUT THE PRODUCT IN THE LAKE IF IT'S NOT BEING USED? WE HAVE ACTUALLY FOUND THAT THE WEEKEND WARRIOR TYPES OUT THERE ARE APPLYING WAY TOO MUCH PRODUCT.
BY HAVING THIS DONE. WE ALSO ARE RELYING ON OUR SURVEYS AND ON GPS FOR SPOT TREATING ONCE THE TREATMENT IS DONE.
>> COULD YOU ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED BY
[01:15:04]
THE FIRST GENTLEMAN THAT SPOKE IN OUR PUBLIC COMMENT, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE COST TO MANAGE THE LID BY THE CITY AND THE LIABILITY THAT'S PLACED, AND MAYBE IT'S APPROPRIATE TO ASK OUR STAFF AND LEGAL COUNSEL TO COMMENT ON THAT AS WELL.>> I'D BE HAPPY TO. AGAIN, I GOT BATED A LITTLE BIT, AND I LOST MY TEMPER.
>> I APOLOGIZE FOR THE COMMENTS.
>> YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I LET MYSELF GET.
>> I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 45 YEARS, AND I TRY NOT TO LET ANYTHING GET ME TOO WORKED UP. THE COST.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY THIS WOULD HAVE ANY COST WHATSOEVER FOR THE CITY, ZERO.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOUR ROLE IS IS TO HOLD PUBLIC HEARINGS TO ESTABLISH THE LID.
ONCE THE LID IS ESTABLISHED, IS REALLY UP TO THE CITY WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO BE THE FISCAL AGENT OR NOT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE.
YOUR ROLE RIGHT NOW IS TO SHEPHERD THE PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE ON THE BAY AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN LISTENED TO.
WE ARE TALKING HERE STRICTLY ABOUT STUBBS BAY, SO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE THERE ARE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, THAT YOU HAVE THE SIGNATURES AND ALL THE LEGAL STEPS GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOUR ROLE IS HERE IS TO.
REALLY FOCUS ON, WHAT ARE THE PEOPLE ON THE BAY WANT AND WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE LAKE?
>> THEY HAVE INSURANCE, TOO. BECAUSE THEY'RE A SEPARATE ENTITY, THEY'D BE HAVE THE SAME KIND OF SET UP FOR INSURANCE AS THE CITIES DO, OR ANYBODY ELSE.
AND OUR AND DOES THE CITY LOSS PAY ON THOSE POLICIES, DO YOU KNOW?
>> STAFF TIME IS INVOLVED WITH THE SETUP, REVIEWING THE PETITIONS.
THE BIGGEST COST WOULD JUST BE AT THE INITIAL STAGE OF SETTING UP THE LID.
THEN EACH YEAR WITH CERTIFYING ITS VERY MINIMAL STAFF TIME.
THERE IS STILL A LITTLE BIT OF STAFF TIME, BUT IT'S MINIMAL JUST TO GET THE INFORMATION SENT OFF TO THE COUNTY AND THEN TO POST ANY INFORMATION THAT THE LID GIVES US ONTO THE CITY WEBSITE.
THEN AS FOR INSURANCE, WE WOULD BE ASKING THE LID TO GET THEIR OWN SEPARATE LIABILITY INSURANCE.
>> IF I MIGHT EVEN JUST TAKE A STEP FURTHER.
WE HAVE TALKED WITH THIS STAFF, AND I THINK WE MENTIONED IT WHEN WE MET, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN COLLECT THE MONEY.
IT COULD BE JUST A BILLING THAT GOES OUT FROM THE LID ITSELF, EVEN, JUST LIKE A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, OR YOU CAN COLLECT IT THROUGH WHATEVER PROCESS YOU CHOOSE.
>> I'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING OR ASK A QUESTION AS WELL.
I AM UNCLEAR BECAUSE WE HAD THE GENTLEMAN WHO SPOKE TONIGHT AGAIN ADDRESSED THIS COUNCIL IN MARCH ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
IT WAS APPARENT THAT, I BELIEVE IT WAS FOREST LAKE, STARTED THIS PROCESS, AND THEN THERE WAS A REVERSAL OF THOSE CITIZENS DECIDING THAT THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WERE WANTING TO PROCEED WITH.
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, BASED ON THE COMMENTS GIVEN IN MARCH.
WHAT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME, IS WHETHER OR NOT THE LACK OF SUPPORT OR THE REVERSALS IN SOME CASES IS DUE TO ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS? THESE ARE CONTESTED FINDINGS ABOUT NATIVES, CHEMICALS, FOREVER CHEMICALS, ALL THAT STUFF, OR IF THE OBJECTION IS TO THE FINANCIAL BURDEN ON THE HOMEOWNERS? IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME WHAT THE OBJECTION IS AND WHY THIS IS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE, BECAUSE WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS THAT, I HAVEN'T MET A PERSON YET WHO DOESN'T APPRECIATE LAKE QUALITY, WATER QUALITY, THE ABILITY TO ENSURE THAT NATIVES ARE THRIVING AND THAT WE ARE REDUCING OR AT LEAST MANAGING INVASIVES.
THOSE ARE COMMON THEMES AND DESIRES.
I HAVEN'T MET ANYONE YET WHO DOESN'T HAVE IT THAT, AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT A $200 CONTRIBUTION IS NOT SIGNIFICANT IF WE'RE REACHING THOSE GOALS.
THAT SAID, THIS SEEMS TO BE, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'VE BEEN BAITED, AND I'M THINKING, WHY ON EARTH, IF WE WOULD SHARE THESE THINGS IN COMMON, ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT THESE THINGS? ARE SOME NEIGHBORS DECIDING THAT THESE ARE NOT THINGS THEY WANT TO PURSUE? IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT, IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.
>> [LAUGHTER] FAR, BE IT FROM ANYTHING NOT TO BE CONTROVERSIAL.
THE FOREST LAKE, THERE WAS A GROUP OF ABOUT FIVE HOMEOWNERS ON FOREST LAKE THAT APPROACHED AND ASKED FOR HELP PUTTING TOGETHER.
[01:20:01]
I CAME IN HERE, AND I GAVE A PRESENTATION ON WHAT IS A LID AND THE PROCESS TO PUT THESE THINGS TOGETHER.PART OF THAT PROCESS, I WAS ABLE TO GET A SMALL GRANT FROM THE LAKE MINNETONKA ASSOCIATION AND ANOTHER SMALL GRANT FROM HENNEPIN COUNTY TO DO A SURVEY.
THE HOMEOWNERS TALKED TO ME EARLY ON IN THE SEASON WHEN THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THE WEEDS IN THEIR LAKE.
ONCE WE TALKED, I SAID, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET A SURVEY, IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT GOING DOWN THE PATH OF GETTING A LID, SO WE GOT THE MONEY PUT TOGETHER, AND WE DID A SURVEY.
WHAT THE SURVEY SHOWED IS ON FOREST LAKE, THE REAL CHALLENGE WASN'T THE EURASIAN WATERMILFOIL, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS SOME OUT THERE, BUT IT WASN'T THE LIMITING FACTOR.
ON FOREST LAKE, THE PROBLEM WAS A PLANT CALLED COONTAIL.
AND THAT WAS A LIMITING FACTOR UP THERE.
COONTAIL CAN BE MISTAKEN FOR EURASIAN WATERMILFOIL, SO CERTAINLY THEY CAN'T FAULT ANY OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN IT.
I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED, THERE WAS SOME MISINFORMATION THAT WENT OUT THERE.
THERE WAS A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM TO GET STARTED ON IT.
I STILL THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL IDEA IF THEY COULD FORM A LID, BUT I HONESTLY THINK THEY JUST LOST THE ENERGY WHEN THE ORGANIZERS OF IT GOT SOME PUSH BACK.
THEY JUST LOST THE ENERGY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
[INAUDIBLE] THEY CANNOT TREAT COONTAIL BECAUSE IT [OVERLAPPING]
>> DO THEY HAVE A LOT OF NATIVE?
>> APPARENTLY, YOU DO TOO. THE COONTAIL IS A 64% OCCURRENCE IN YOUR AQUATIC PLANT SURVEY. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT?
>> IT MAKES ME THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT, AND IF THE IDEA IS TO HAVE NATIVES THRIVE, PART OF THIS SEEMS TO BE A PHILOSOPHICAL IDEA ABOUT HOW WE WANT OUR LAKES TO LOOK, HOW WE'RE USING THEM, AND THE IDEA PERHAPS THAT WHERE WE LIVE, WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF NATURE, WILDLIFE, THAT TYPE OF THING, IS THIS AN ISSUE WHERE SOME FOLKS ARE FEELING THAT THESE LAKES SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY WEEDS IN THEM SO THAT THEY CAN ENJOY THEM OR SWIM FREELY WHEN WE DO LIVE, AND WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO PROTECTING NATIVE LANDSCAPE AND UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DON'T LIVE IN A PRISTINE PRESERVE.
WE LIVE IN AND REQUIRE THAT THESE PLANTS BE HERE FOR FILTRATION, FOR HABITAT, ETC.
>> THAT IS, I THINK THE UNDERLYING ISSUE HERE OF WHY THE LID MAKE SENSE AND WHY WE DO WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING ON HERE.
AGAIN, WE'RE WORKING QUITE CLOSELY WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCE WHO SHARES EXACTLY YOUR CONCERN ABOUT NATIVE PLANTS.
WHAT WE HAVE FOUND, AGAIN, THESE INVASIVE PLANTS, WHEN THEY GROW, THEY OUT-COMPETE YOUR NATIVE PLANTS.
THEY'RE GOING TO OUT-COMPETE EVEN THE COONTAIL IN SOME AREAS.
>> WOULDN'T WE SEE THAT BY NOW?
>> WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS GET RID OF THE INVASIVE PLANTS.
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE DIVERSITY BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT A COONTAIL DOMINATED LAKE EITHER.
THAT'S NOT GOOD. ANY ONE SPECIES IS NOT GOOD FOR THE LAKE.
YOU NEED MULTIPLE SPECIES IN THERE.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AND WHAT THE RESEARCH IS SHOWING IS THAT BY TREATING THE LAKE, GETTING RID OF THESE INVASIVE SPECIES, YOU CAN ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE SOME OF THE NATIVE SPECIES TO NOW GROW AND OUT-COMPETE SOME OF THESE AGGRESSIVE INVASIVES, IF YOU WOULD.
YOU DO WANT THAT DIVERSITY BACK, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FINDING IS THAT THE DIVERSITY OF PLANTS ARE RETURNING TO THE LAKE ONCE THESE TREATMENTS ARE DONE. I DON'T KNOW, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
>> [INAUDIBLE] AFFECT THE COONTAIL?
>> THE FOCUS ON THE TREATMENTS, AGAIN, IS TO CONTROL THE CURLY PONDWEED AND THE EURASIAN WATERMILLFOIL.
WILL IT KILL THE COONTAIL? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
WE DON'T WANT TO KILL THE COONTAIL, AND WE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS IF WE WERE TO KILL THE COONTAIL.
IS IT GOING TO CREATE A OPENING FOR NATIVE PLANTS TO GROW? ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FINDING.
SO YES, THEY'RE APPLIED, AND ACTUALLY, IN THIS CASE, WHAT THE PLAN IS THIS YEAR, THAT'S BEEN APPROVED IS THAT TREATMENTS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE WINTERTIME WHEN THESE THINGS AREN'T EVEN GROWING IN ORDER TO KNOCK BACK THE CURLY LEAF, WHICH DOES WANT TO GROW UNDERNEATH THE ICE AND DOES WANT TO KEEP ON GROWING.
IF I MIGHT, LET ME INTRODUCE CINDY FOR YOU.
CINDY IS THE BAY CAPTAIN FOR NORTH ARM BAY.
CINDY HAS BEEN BAY CAPTAIN FOR EIGHT YEARS NOW, YEAH?
>> YEAH. I JUST WANT TO SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS, AND THANKS EVERYONE FOR LISTENING TO THIS, AND I PROMISE TO BE QUICK.
I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS WITH NORTH ARM FOR EIGHT YEARS.
NOW, NORTH ARM IS COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY ORONO.
WE'RE IN ORONO, WE HAVE THE SAME SITUATION,
[01:25:04]
BUT WE HAVE BEEN MANAGING NORTH ARM FOR YEARS.WE'RE ON A PROGRAM AND SO THOSE MAPS THAT YOU SAW, MS. BARRETT, WE DON'T HAVE ALL THOSE DOTS ON THERE.
THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN ON A MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THIS.
EVERY YEAR, THERE'S A SURVEY AND THEY GO OUT AND THEY FIND OUT WHERE THIS IS AND THEN THEY CAN SPOT TREAT.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED NOW IS THE AMOUNT OF CHEMICALS THAT GET PUT IN THE LAKE FOR NORTH ARM, IS VERY LOW.
THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO KEEP UP WITH THIS PROGRAM ON OUR BAY.
WE WILL KEEP ON WITH THIS ON OUR BAY, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A LID.
THE LID IS JUST MORE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE THING IS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SPREAD OUT THE COSTS.
NOW, WITH REGARD TO THAT, I GET TO LICK ENVELOPES, PUT STAMPS ON THEM.
YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO GET THESE VERY SHORTLY BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO GO IN THE MAIL TOMORROW.
EVERY YEAR, I DO THIS TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO DONATE TO THIS PROGRAM, WHICH HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THESE INVASIVES ARE WAY WORSE THAN THE NATIVES.
WE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT THE NATIVES, BUT WE HAVE THEM, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THEM.
BUT WE DON'T WANT THE MILFOIL, AND WE DON'T WANT THE CURLY LEAVE PONDWEED.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED NOW IS OUR YEARLY AMOUNT GOES TO $10,000 A YEAR INSTEAD OF $40,000 A YEAR.
BUT THE REALITY IS WHEN I SEND THESE LETTERS OUT, THE RETURN RATE HELP ME OUT ERIC, IS ABOUT 30%.
>> SO 30% OF THE HOMEOWNERS WILL DONATE TO THIS, AND SOME DONATE A LOT, SOME DONATE NOTHING, SOME DONATE A LITTLE BIT.
I'M GETTING SICK OF DOING THIS.
IF THERE ISN'T ANOTHER VOLUNTEER TO COME IN AND PICK THIS UP, WHEN I SAY, I'M DONE.
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS FOR A WHILE, BY THE WAY.
BUT I BELIEVE IN THE HEALTH OF THE LAKE.
WE'RE GOING TO BE PURSUING A LID POSSIBLY ALSO AND THAT'S WHY I'M HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR ALL THE ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST THIS TO SEE IF WE SHOULD PURSUE THIS FOR NORTH ARM BAY ALSO.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THAT THIS LID ISN'T SO MUCH ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO BE PUT IN THE LAKE BECAUSE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.
THE LMA CONTROLS IT, THE DNR, THE U OF M, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF REGULATION IN PLACE FOR THIS.
IT'S NOT THE CITY THAT'S GOING TO HAVE THIS HUGE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN FOR THIS.
IT'S JUST A WAY TO BE MORE EQUITABLE WITH THE FUNDING FOR IT AS CARINA SAID, AND TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS SUSTAINABILITY FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR LAKES, WHICH IS IMPORTANT.
THE OTHER THING THAT DIDN'T COME THROUGH IS IF WE HAVE THE NATIVE SPECIES VERSUS THE INVASIVES, WE HAVE MORE FISH, AND WE HAVE NATIVE FISH.
I DON'T KNOW YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT.
>> THANK YOU. CINDY IS RIGHT. WHAT WE WOULD EXPECT TO SEE OVER TIME IS A RESTORATION OF NATURAL ECOLOGY.
I MEAN, ALL OF US UNDERSTAND HOW THE FOOD CHAIN WORKS. YOU START AT THE BOTTOM.
IF YOU CAN BRING BACK THE NATIVE PLANTS, THAT MEANS THE MACRO-INVERTEBRATES ARE GOING TO DO BETTER AND ALL THE WAY UP TO FOOD CHAIN.
CINDY ALSO MADE ONE REALLY IMPORTANT POINT THAT AGAIN.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF EXHAUSTION, FRANKLY.
WE HAVE LOST AT LEAST ONE BAY CAPTAIN RECENTLY.
PHELPS BAY NO LONGER HAS A BAY CAPTAIN.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE TREATED ANYMORE, BECAUSE ALL THE BAY CAPTAINS THEIR PRIMARY JOB IS TO GO NEIGHBOR TO NEIGHBOR AND ASK THEM FOR MONEY.
IT'S ONLY SO LONG PEOPLE CAN DO THAT ON AN ONGOING BASIS.
ONCE THE BAY CAPTAINS GO AWAY, AND WE CAN'T FIND SOMEBODY ELSE TO KNOCK ON THE NEIGHBOR'S DOOR, THE PROGRAM GOES AWAY AND THE LAKES WILL BECOME WEEDY AGAIN OVER TIME.
THAT IS WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE.
IT IS WHAT'S HAPPENED ON CRYSTAL BAY. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE BEEN OUT THERE.
THEY'VE BEEN DOING, THEY GET EXCITED.
THEY DO A LOT OF TREATMENT, AND WE KNOCK IT BACK FOR A LITTLE BIT, AND THEN THEY PULL BACK FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, AND THE WEEDS TAKE OVER AGAIN.
>> COULD YOU CLARIFY SOMETHING WHEN YOU SAY THEY ARE DOING THE TREATMENTS? I HEARD THE PRIOR SPEAKER TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT A LID, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT UNLESS YOU HAVE A LID, THOSE AREAS ARE NOT BEING TREATED, IS THAT NOT CORRECT?
>> THIS IS NOT CLEAR UNFORTUNATELY, AND WHAT I ALSO HEARD IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A LID, THERE NEEDS TO BE A PROFESSIONAL THIRD PARTY DOING THE TREATMENT.
>> I GO TO TAKE OVER FOR A SECOND. [LAUGHTER].
>> I JUST WANT TO BACK UP AND CORRECT SOMETHING I SAID.
>> I'M SUPPOSED TO HAVE THEM BUT I'M NOT [OVERLAPPING] [INAUDIBLE]
>> I JUST WANT TO BACK UP AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
[01:30:01]
THE ANSWER IS, THE BAYS THAT ARE BEING TREATED RIGHT NOW ARE EITHER BEING TREATED THROUGH A LID, SUCH AS ST. ALBANS OR CARMAN'S BAY, OR THEY'RE BEING TREATED BY VOLUNTEERS, THE BAY ASSOCIATION.NOW, THE LAKE MINNETONKA ASSOCIATION OVERSEES THE TREATMENT FOR THOSE BAYS THAT ARE VOLUNTEER DRIVEN.
LAST YEAR, WE WORKED WITH STUBBS BAY, IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH NORTH ARM BAY.
YOU'VE GOT A VOLUNTEER GROUP THERE.
WHEN I SAY THEY, IT IS THE HOMEOWNERS ON THE BAY THAT ARE DOING THE WORK AND THE ONES RAISING THE MONEY FOR IT.
>> I'M SORRY TO CRASH YOUR PARTY.
WELL, I'LL MISS FEW MEETINGS JUST TO GIVE YOU A BREAK.
I'M GABRIEL JABBOUR 985 TONKAWA ROAD.
THIS ALL STARTED WITH AN EXPERIMENT OF THREE BAYS BY THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS.
I WAS INTIMATELY INVOLVED WITH THEM IN THE EARLY '90S.
IN THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS, MAYBE SIX YEAR OR 10 YEARS, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF EXPERIMENTS BEING DONE IN NORTH ARM, AND USGS, CORPS OF ENGINEERS, FISH WILDLIFE, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA HAD THEIR LAB AT MY HOME.
I LEARNED A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.
THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE DETERMINED WHAT COULD GO IN THE LAKE.
WHAT COULD GO IN THE LAKE AND HOW IT GOES IN THE LAKE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT.
I TRIED TO STOP IT WHEN IT WAS DO IT YOURSELF, OR STILL AVAILABLE.
I WAS ONE OF THE DO IT YOURSELF IN 1972.
I USED TO GO AROUND ALL STUBBS BAY, GATHER MONEY, AND TRY TO DO COPPER SULFATE TO GET RID OF THE ALGAE BLOOM.
WHERE ARE WE TODAY? AFTER MANY YEARS OF STUDIES, THEY FOUND SOME CHEMICAL, WHICH IS BIASED TOWARDS PARTICULAR SPECIES IT WILL KILL.
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT.
NOW, YOU AS A HOMEOWNER COULD GO GET A PERMIT AND DO IT.
THOSE ARE THE GOOD OWNERS HOMEOWNERS.
YOU AS A HOMEOWNER COULD GO TO FLEET FARM AND GET THE CHEMICAL AND DO IT WITHOUT A PERMIT, BUT IT'S ILLEGAL.
YOU AS A BAY COULD DO BAY WIDE PERMIT.
THE ONLY FUNCTION YOU INVOLVE IN AND THEY'RE ASKING YOU FOR IS, COULD WE SPREAD THE PAIN? COULD EVERYBODY PARTICIPATE FINANCIALLY INTO IT? WHO, WHERE, WHAT CHEMICAL AND HOW YOU'RE TOTALLY OUT OF THE PICTURE.
NOW, I SERVED ON AIS COMMITTEE FOR DNR STATEWIDE.
I THINK FOR SIX YEARS AND I WORK WITH THE AIS CENTER FOREVER, GOT THEIR FIRST BIG AWARD AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
THE GENERAL BELIEF AND THE DESIRE OF THE DNR, AND I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THEM IS THAT WE HAVE AN ORGANIZED ACTIVITY DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL.
NOW, IF THERE'S A BAYWIDE PERMIT, THOSE ARE TWO-YEAR-OLD INFORMATION I'M GIVING YOU.
IF I'M WRONG, I'M SURE HE'LL CORRECT ME.
IF WE ARE DOING, BAYWIDE, YOU AS AN HOMEOWNER WILL NOT GET A PERMIT.
BUT INSTEAD OF JUST GETTING ON RANDOMLY AND THROWING IT IN THE LAKE AND HAVING IT LEASH TO YOUR NEIGHBOR AND GO IN THEIR SPRINKLING SYSTEM AND ALL, A LID IS MORE ORGANIZED.
NOW, A LID IS A GOOD VEHICLE UNDER WHICH YOU DERIVE A FOCUS REVENUE TO THAT BAY.
BUT IT COULD BE A DISASTER IF THE BOARD OF DIRECTOR DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
YOU'RE GIVING MONEY TO PEOPLE, AND THEY COULD GO WILD.
HAVING THE BAY AND RESIDENTS OF THE BAY RESPONSIBLE IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PROCESS.
BUT AGAIN, WHAT YOU INVOLVE IN IS MONEY, END OF DEAL. THANK YOU. SORRY.
>> I DO APPRECIATE GABE CLARIFICATION ON THAT.
HE SAID, SOMETIMES SCIENTISTS DON'T MAKE THE BEST SPEAKERS, AND I TEND TO FALL INTO THAT GROUP.
THE OTHER THING, I THINK, IS IMPORTANT WHEN IT COMES TO, AND YOU ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT WHO THAT THEY IS.
THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES, AS GABE SAID, WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN IF THEY WEREN'T USING
[01:35:02]
PROFESSIONAL APPLICATORS THAT ARE LICENSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES.IF THEY'RE NOT USING A SEPARATE INDEPENDENT PERSON TO GO OUT THERE AND LOOK FOR WEEDS.
WHAT WE WANT IS INDEPENDENCE IN THESE PROGRAMS. THE PERSON OUT THERE SAYING, THIS PROGRAM IS SUCCESSFUL IS NOT THE PERSON PUTTING THE PRODUCT DOWN.
THAT THE PERSON SAYING, YES, THIS PROGRAM IS SUCCESSFUL IS A QUALIFIED PLANT SPECIALIST ON THE LAKE.
I DON'T WANT ANYBODY HERE TO BE CONFUSED.
ONCE YOU CREATE A LID, THEY'RE GOING TO EXIST FOR A WHILE.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS BOARD HAS THE INFORMATION AND HAS THE CORRECT INFORMATION.
NOW, I CAN BE PRETTY PASSIONATE ABOUT THINGS.
BUT ULTIMATELY, WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO IS GET THE INFORMATION THAT YOU NEED TO REPRESENT YOUR ROLE ON THE CITY WELL.
TO THAT END, IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS AND I CAN'T ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY ABOUT SOME OF THE WORK THAT OUR PLANT SPECIALIST DOES.
GET THOSE TO ADAM, TO EGGY, OR TO SOMEBODY, AND I WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET A CLEAR ANSWER TO THOSE.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO GAIN PERSONALLY BY ANY OF THIS.
IN FACT, IN A WAY, I'M WORKING MYSELF OUT OF A JOB.
THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF I COULD DO THAT.
THIS IS DRAGGING ON HERE A LITTLE BIT SO I APPRECIATE IT.
>> MR. MAYOR IF I MIGHT, JUST TO INTERJECT.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A PRESENTATION THIS EVENING.
IF THIS PROCESS CONTINUES ON, THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING.
WE'VE GOT IT HIGHLIGHTED THERE IN JUNE WHERE A LOT OF THE BACK-
>> NO ACTION THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN.
>> YEAH, AT THIS POINT, I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT IS REALLY UP TO THE CITY IS TO, AS MAGGIE INDICATED, IS TO CERTIFY THAT THOSE PEOPLE WHO DID SIGN THE PETITION ARE INDEED RESIDENTS OF THE AREA THAT HAS BE?
>> WE DO THAT ON MAY 5TH OR BEFORE OUR MAY 12TH MEETING.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> I THINK MAYBE SOME INPUT INTO IF THERE'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE FOR PETITION WISE, OF THE HOMEOWNERS THAT THEY NEED TO REACH TO WOULD BE A GOOD DIRECTION TO GIVE THEM.
IF YOU WANT IT SAY, 70% OF HOME OWNERS TO SIGN THAT PETITION WOULD BE A GOOD INPUT FOR THEM.
>> WHAT PERCENTAGE WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING?
>> OR IF THERE'S ANY DIRECTIONS THAT YOU WANT TO GIVE THEM BEFORE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
>> WHEN THEY COME FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, THEY WILL BE BRINGING A PETITION, WHICH A STAFF CERTIFY.
THE STATE TALKS ABOUT A SIMPLE MAJORITY OF PROPERTY OWNERS SIGNING THAT PETITION.
SOME OF YOUR PREDECESSORS HAVE SAID, HEY, WE'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE 60% OR 70% BEFORE WE AS A COUNCIL, WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN THE FORMATION OF A LID.
I THINK WHAT MAGGIE'S GETTING AT IS, IF THERE IS SUCH A NUMBER IN ANYONE'S MIND UP HERE, IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO PROVIDE IT TO THE FOLKS THAT ARE PUTTING THIS APPLICATION TOGETHER.
>> THOUGHTS BY THE COUNCIL ON THAT.
>> THIS REALLY COMES DOWN TO VOLUNTARY VERSUS MANDATED THROUGH A LID.
I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S A BETTER OR WORSE RESULT FROM ONE OR THE OTHER.
BUT I JUST PERSONALLY HAVE A FUNDAMENTAL CONCERN ABOUT ESTABLISHING A MANDATE FOR THIS THING, 70%.
IF IT'S 70% THAT AT OUR FOUR, WHAT ABOUT THE 30% THAT AREN'T? IS THERE AN ANALOGY TO HOMES THAT SURROUND A CITY PARK OR A STATE PARK? THEY ALL GET TOGETHER AND SAY, WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING XYZ THERE.
IF YOU GET ENOUGH PEOPLE, THEN EVERYBODY HAS TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT THAT FEELS WRONG TO ME.
>> MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT. WE ALREADY HAVE APPROXIMATELY 60%.
THE STATE MANDATES THE STATUTE IS MAJORITY, 51%.
WE HAVE THAT. TO GET MORE THAN 60% VIRTUALLY WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF SEASONAL RESIDENTS SNOW BUNNIES OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, 5-10% OF ANY OF THOSE PROPERTIES ARE BEING BOUGHT OR SOLD AT ANY TIME, SO TO MAKE CONTACT WITH ANY MORE PEOPLE IS VERY DIFFICULT.
[01:40:04]
ATTAINING A 70%, I WOULD VIEW AS AN ACT OF TRYING TO MAKE IT NOT HAPPEN.IT'S TOO HIGH A MOUNTAIN TO CLIMB. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
>> I'M A RESIDENT OF THE STUBBS BAY NEIGHBORHOOD.
I DON'T LIVE RIGHT ON THE LAKE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION.
THEY'VE ALREADY GONE OUT AND MET WITH NEIGHBORS, WITHOUT THE CITY, WITHOUT ALL THE INFORMATION.
THEY'RE NOT GIVING US A CHOICE.
THEY'RE SAYING WE'RE DOING IT.
WHERE'S ALL THE INFORMATION? I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.
I WANT TO KNOW MORE. WAIT, PLEASE.
I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE CHEMICALS, HOW LONG THEY STAY IN THE SOIL, HOW THEY INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER.
I'M HORRIFIED TO HEAR THAT PEOPLE ARE PUTTING THESE CHEMICALS IN THE LAKE BY THEMSELVES.
I'VE HEARD FROM SOME SOURCES THAT SOME OF THESE CHEMICALS ARE BAD FOR THE FISH, WHICH I FIND HILARIOUS THAT LEE HERNS A FISHERMAN, AND HE'S UP HERE PROMOTING IT.
WE NEED TO KNOW MORE INFORMATION.
IT SHOULDN'T BE GOING INTO THIS NEXT LEVEL WITHOUT GETTING MORE INFORMATION.
>> IF YOU DON'T MIND. PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION HAD SUGGESTED 70%.
TO THE POINT OF THAT 70%, CLAIRE, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS, WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO DON'T SUPPORT IT? WHAT I DID IN FOREST LAKE IS ONCE I WENT OUT AND I BROUGHT A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
I BROUGHT DIFFERENT INFORMATION.
I BROUGHT TO YOU THAT OVER 50% OF THE SIGNATURES THAT ARE NEARLY 50/% OF THE SIGNATURES I BROUGHT IN FLIPPED FROM SIGNING THAT ORIGINAL PETITION.
ONCE THEY LEARNED INFORMATION THAT THEY WERE NOT PRIVILEGED TO PRIOR TO SIGNING THE FIRST PETITION.
>> THE SOURCE OF THE INFORMATION, EVERYBODY.
THERE'S A STUBBS BAY.ORG WEBSITE THAT HAS ALL THE SURVEYS THAT WERE DONE, ALL THE DATA, THAT THE REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE.
THE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS TREATED AND THE SAFETY DATA ON THAT IS ALL ON THAT WEBSITE, WAYS TO DONATE, WAYS TO SIGN THE PETITION, MY PERSONAL EMAIL, MY PERSONAL CELL PHONE, AND SO THERE IS A MAILING WENT OUT TO EVERY THE DATABASE THAT THE LMCA OR THE LMA GAVE US, FOR ALL THE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE LAKE, SHORE OR DEEDED ACCESS THAT WOULD IMPACT THEIR TAXES.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING ON WHETHER THEY WANT TO BE ASSESSED OR NOT FOR THIS CAUSE.
THAT INFORMATION WENT OUT IN PAPER.
THEY WENT OUT TO PEOPLE WE HAD EMAILS OF FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR.
IT'S BEEN A NEIGHBOR TO NEIGHBOR EFFORT.
LIKE I SAID, WE'VE GOT 63 PROPERTIES.
BUT THE MINIMUM IS 51% BY THE MINNESOTA STATE STATUTE SO FOR LIDS.
WE'VE BEEN WORKING REALLY HARD, AND WE HAVE COMMUNICATED ALL THE INFORMATION.
YOU'RE WELCOME TO GO TO STUBBS BAY.ORG AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT AS WELL.
I KNOW THERE'S PEOPLE WHO ARE PASSIONATE ON WHAT GOES INTO THE LAKE.
UNFORTUNATELY, NOBODY ELSE HAS TAKING CARE OF IT.
WE'VE HAD MILL FOIL IN THE LAKE FOR 40 SOME YEARS.
WE WERE GETTING AAS INTO THE LAKE. NOBODY IS GETTING OUT THERE.
IF IT WASN'T FOR OUR BAY CAPTAIN STEPPING UP AND SAYING, LOOK, I'M WILLING TO SPEND PART OF MY SUMMER KNOCKING ON DOORS AND ASKING MY NEIGHBORS FOR MONEY.
THIS LAKE WOULD NOT BE TAKEN CARE OF.
IT'S JUST SIMPLY NOT COMING FROM ANYWHERE ELSE.
UNLESS THE HOMEOWNERS ARE GOING TO DO IT, IT'S NOT GOING TO GET DONE.
SOME OF THE FOLKS HERE MAY NOT BE AS FAMILIAR WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN STUBBS BAY BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIVE ON STUBBS BAY.
IF YOU'RE NOT LIVING ON THE BAY, YOU'RE NOT REALLY IT'S LIKE A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.
MY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION WHILE WE APPRECIATE SOMEBODY FROM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD COMING OVER AND TELLING US WHAT WORKS AND WHAT WE SHOULDN'T DO.
IT IS REALLY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST AFFECTED THAT ARE BEING TALKED TO, AND WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT'S GOING ON, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE INFLUENCED BY ANYTHING I SAY OR ANYBODY ELSE ASK THE QUESTIONS, AND I WILL GET YOU THE ANSWERS YOU NEED FOR YOUR PUBLIC HEARING. THANK YOU.
[01:45:05]
>> THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WALK THROUGH ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS. APPRECIATE IT.
[13. LA24-000054, 430 Old Crystal Bay Road North, Conditional Use Permit, Preliminary Plat, and Site Plan Review]
WHICH IS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT REPORT ON 430 OLD CRYSTAL BAY ROAD NORTH.DO WE HAVE A SPOKESPERSON TO [INAUDIBLE]
>> YEAH. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
I HAVE A SHORT PRESENTATION HERE TO GIVE YOU.
LET ME GET A LITTLE SITE PLAN UP.
IN FRONT OF YOU TONIGHT IS AN APPLICATION TO REQUEST A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, PRELIMINARY PLAT, AND SITE PLAN APPROVAL FOR AN 85 UNIT GARAGE CONDO DEVELOPMENT.
THE APPLICATION WAS DEEMED COMPLETE ON JANUARY 9TH.
IT WAS GRANTED AN ADMINISTRATIVE EXTENSION RESULTING IN A REVIEW PERIOD THAT WOULD SET TO EXPIRE ON MAY 5TH.
THE PROPOSED GARAGE CONDO DEVELOPMENT WILL ACCESS OFF ORONO INDUSTRIAL BOULEVARD TO BE CONSTRUCTED ON THE NORTH SIDE.
THE BOULEVARD, EXCUSE ME, WILL BE CONSTRUCTED ROUGHLY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FIVE ACRE PARCEL.
THE PROJECT IS PROPOSED TO BE A CONDOMINIUM FORMAT WITH A OWNER ASSOCIATION WILL OWN THE LAND, AND THE INDIVIDUAL CONDO UNITS WILL BE FOR PERSONAL USE OF EACH OWNER.
EACH UNIT IS PROPOSED TO HAVE A DEVELOPER INSTALLED UTILITY CONNECTION OF WATER AND SEWER, WHICH CAN BE CUSTOMIZED BY THE OWNER.
A SITE IMPROVEMENT PLAN WILL DEFINE THE RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THE INSTALLATION OF UTILITIES, STORMWATER IMPROVEMENTS, EASEMENTS, AND WILL BE BE DEDICATED FOR DRAINAGE UTILITIES AND ACCESS THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY.
THE SHARED COMMON AREA CONSISTS PRIMARILY OF THE DRY AISLES, THE STORMWATER POND, AND THE GREEN SPACE SURROUNDING THE PARCEL, WHICH ARE NOT TO BE INTENDED TO BE USED FOR STORAGE OR WAREHOUSING OR ANY COMMERCIAL OR OTHER INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITY.
THE DEVELOPMENT WILL NOT HAVE CUSTOMER FACING RETAIL OR COMMERCIAL USES.
AS SUBMITTED, STAFF FINDS THAT THE APPLICATION MEETS THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CRITERIA, WHICH IS ATTACHED TO THE ANALYSIS ATTACHED AS EXHIBIT B ON YOUR PACKET.
STAFF DID IDENTIFY SIX CONDITIONS, WHICH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.
I'D BE HAPPY TO READ THROUGH THOSE CONDITIONS, IF YOU'D LIKE.
TO SUMMARIZE THIS APPLICATION.
IT DID GO IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I KNOW I WAS ASKED ABOUT SOME OF THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT, AND I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THOSE E MAILS.
THIS APPLICATION STARTED OFF AS A SITE PLAN REVIEW BACK IN OCTOBER TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEWED THIS APPLICATION AND THOUGHT IT WAS A CHALLENGING FIT FOR THE PERMITTED USES IN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT.
WITH THAT, THE APPLICANT WITHDREW THEIR SITE PLAN REVIEW AND THEN MADE A APPLICATION TO AMEND THE CITY CODE TO LIST WITH STAFF GUIDANCE TO LIST IT AS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
A DRAFTED TEXT THEN WAS PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS A TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE CITY CODE TO LIST GARAGE CONDOS AS A CONDITIONAL USE WITH A HANDFUL OF IDENTIFIED CONDITIONS.
A PUBLIC HEARING WAS HELD AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THEY ULTIMATELY VOTED IN FAVOR OF THAT TEXT AMENDMENT.
THAT THEN WENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL IN DECEMBER.
IT WAS SET ON THE REGULAR AGENDA.
I BELIEVE THE CITY COUNCIL MOVED IT UP TO THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR THAT MEETING AT THE DECEMBER MEETING.
THE APPLICANT, ONCE THE TEXT AMENDMENT WAS ADOPTED, THE APPLICANT MADE AN APPLICATION FOR THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOLLOWING THE CITY CODE.
AS YOU KNOW, THE JANUARY PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WAS CANCELED.
THE APPLICANT THEN PROJECT WAS REVIEWED AT THE FEBRUARY PLANNING COMMISSION.
AT THE FEBRUARY PLANNING COMMISSION, THE PLANNING COMMISSION ENDED UP RE ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, INCLUDING CLARITY ON MANEUVERABILITY, TIMELINE, SOME CONSTRUCTION PHASING OF THE SITE, AND THEY ENDED UP TABLEING THE APPLICATION AT THAT TIME FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
THE APPLICANT PROVIDED UPDATED INFORMATION TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN MARCH.
THEY INCLUDED PHOTOS AND EXAMPLES OF OTHER GARAGE CONDOS THROUGHOUT THE TWIN CITIES AREA, CONSTRUCTION PLANS, CIVIC PLANS, RENDERINGS, AND A TRAFFIC STUDY FOR THE SITE.
THE COMMISSION DETERMINED THAT OFF STREET PARKING FOR THE SITE SHOULD BE PROVIDED AND GAVE DIRECTION TO THE APPLICANT TO AMEND THEIR PLAN.
DUE TO THE TIMING OF THE APPLICATION AND THE ADDITIONAL DIRECTION FOR A PARKING PLAN AND REVIEWING OF THE SITE DENSITY, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DETERMINED THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO APPROVE THE PROJECT AS APPLIED AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED DENYING THE APPLICATION ON A FOUR TO ONE VOTE.
THE COUNCIL GAVE THE APPLICANT DIRECTION FOR THE CITY COUNCIL TO AMEND THEIR PLANS ADDRESSING SPECIFIC AS ARGUMENT.
[01:50:04]
FOLLOWING THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S DIRECTION, THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED AN AMENDED PROOF OF PARKING PLAN, WHICH I HAVE UP IN FRONT OF YOU.THE COUNCIL SHOULD REVIEW AND DISCUSS THE AMENDED PARKING AGAINST THE DIRECTION PROVIDED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
STAFF HAS REVIEWED THE PLAN AND HAS INCLUDED AN ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS.
WE'VE SPECIFICALLY REACHED OUT TO ABOUT A HALF A DOZEN OTHER CITIES AND GOT RESPONSES ON HOW THEY HANDLED OFF STREET PARKING FOR THEIR GARAGE CONDO DEVELOPMENTS.
I'VE INCLUDED THAT AS EXHIBIT C IN YOUR PACKET.
BUT STAFF DID JUST POSE SOME QUESTIONS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS ENTERTAINING, WHICH WAS, IS OFF STREET PARKING NECESSARY FOR THE USE? DOES THE COUNCIL FIND THE AMENDED PLAN IN FRONT OF YOU REASONABLE AND SHOULD THE DEVELOPER INSTALL THE PARKING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OR IS A PROOF OF PARKING PLAN ADEQUATE? UNFORTUNATELY, MY ANNOTATIONS AREN'T SHOWN VERY CLEARLY, NOW THAT IT'S BEING PRESENTED, BUT THEY'VE ESSENTIALLY SHOWN IN THEIR ANNOTATED PLAN A PARALLEL SPOT IN FRONT OF EACH UNIT.
THEN ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDE OF BUILDING 1, THEY HAVE SOME IDENTIFIED PARKING.
A BOOK ENDING THAT BUILDING AS WELL.
WE RECEIVED TWO COMMENTS FROM THE THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE FEBRUARY AND THE MARCH PLANNING COMMISSION'S PACKET FOR THEIR REVIEW.
SINCE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS REVIEWED THIS, WE'VE RECEIVED FIVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ALL IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT, WHICH I'VE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET FOR YOUR INFORMATION.
STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THE CITY COUNCIL REVIEW THE PROJECT AND THE CRITERIA REFERENCED IN EXHIBIT B.
STAFF IS RECOMMENDING SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT, AND AN UPDATED PROOF OF PARKING PLAN WAS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT, AND STAFF PROVIDED ADDITIONAL RESEARCH FROM THE OTHER CITIES REGARDING OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR GARAGE CONDO DEVELOPMENTS.
IF THE COUNCIL AGREES THAT THE CRITERIA FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ARE MET, THE COUNCIL SHOULD DIRECT STAFF TO DRAFT A RESOLUTION APPROVING THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH THOSE CONDITIONS STAFF IDENTIFIED AND ANY OTHER CONDITIONS IDENTIFIED BY THE COUNCIL FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, PRELIMINARY PLAN AND SITE PLAN REVIEW WITH THOSE CONDITIONS.
I'M AVAILABLE. THERE ARE A LOT OF EXHIBITS.
I CAN SHOW THERE'S LANDSCAPING, THERE'S RENDERINGS, THERE'S SITE PLANS, THERE'S AERIAL IMAGES.
I'M HAPPY TO SHOW MORE COLOR THAT WAY.
THE APPLICANT IS HERE TONIGHT AND IS READY TO SPEAK TO THEIR PROJECT AS WELL.
>> THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL?
>> APPRECIATE IT. EVENING, COUNCIL MEMBERS AND STAFF.
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.
NAME AND ADDRESS, ROB PAGE, 5840.
THIS IS DAVE RAMSEY WITH ME, AND OUR THIRD PARTNER IS LIZ MARY, WHO LIVES AT 500 WILLBY DRIVE IN ORONO.
APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS 430 COASTAL BAY ROAD, WHICH IS A THOUGHTFULLY DESIGNED, LOW IMPACT INDUSTRIAL GARAGE PROJECT CONDO, PROPOSED BY LOCAL DEVELOPERS, ONE OF WHOM IS AN ORAL RESIDENTS MENTIONED FULFILLS THE NEED OF THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.
STAFF HAS FOUND THE PROJECT MEETS ALL CRITERIA FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND ALL CODE.
WE'VE BEEN AS LAURA MENTIONED IN THE TIMELINE, BEEN COOPERATING WITH STAFF AND CITIES SINCE THE FALL, WORKED HARD TO ADDRESS CONCERNS, NAMELY PARKING, WHICH WE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING THAT'S NEEDED TO MEET REQUIREMENTS BASED ON THE FIRE CHIEFS AND STAFFS REVIEW.
AS MENTIONED, WE'RE HAPPY TO PROVIDE ANY ADDITIONAL CONTEXT AS NEEDED.
WITH US HERE TONIGHT IS AS COUNCIL AS PEE QUAYLE.
WE WOULD LIKE TO SAY A FEW WORDS.
>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COUNSEL. MY NAME IS PETER COYLE.
I'M A LAND USE LAWYER WITH LARKIN HOFFMAN IN BLOOMINGTON 8300 NORMAN CENTER DRIVE, BLOOMINGTON, MINNESOTA.
THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK BRIEFLY WITH THIS EVENING.
A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS A UNIQUE CREATURE IN THE ZONING CODE FOR ALL CITIES.
IT'S AUTHORIZED BY MINNESOTA STATUTES, AND AS YOU ALL KNOW, I'M SURE BY NOW THROUGH YOUR TRAINING PROGRAMS, MINNESOTA LAW ALLOWS CITIES TO SET THEIR OWN ZONING RULES, FOR THE MOST PART.
YOU DO THOSE BY CREATING YOUR ZONING DISTRICTS, AND YOU DEFINE WHICH USES ARE ALLOWED WITHIN THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS, SOME OF WHICH ARE PERMITTED OUTRIGHT, SOME OF WHICH ARE PERMITTED BY SPECIAL PERMITS LIKE A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
ONCE YOU DECIDE THOSE RULES, THOUGH, THE DEVELOPER, THE APPLICANTS ARE BOUND TO COMPLY WITH THE RULES.
AT THE SAME TIME, THE CITY IS BOUND TO COMPLY WITH THOSE RULES.
[01:55:01]
IN THIS CASE, THE CITY HAS CHOSEN TO REZONE THE PROPERTY INDUSTRIAL, AND HAS ADOPTED A CODE THAT ALLOWS FOR INDUSTRIAL CONDO USES OF THE SORT THAT'S PROPOSED TO BE APPROVED WITH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.YOU'VE SPECIFIED THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CAN BE APPROVED.
IF THE DEVELOPER MEETS THOSE CONDITIONS, THE LAW SAYS THAT THERE'S A PRESUMPTION THAT THE APPLICATION IS GOING TO BE APPROVABLE BECAUSE IT'S A PERMITTED USE SUBJECT TO REASONABLE CONDITIONS.
IN THIS CASE, THE STAFF HAS INDICATED THAT THE APPLICANT HAS MET ALL OF THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT THE CITY HAS ARTICULATED IN YOUR CODE, IT'S MET YOUR PARKING CONCERNS, IT'S MET YOUR STORMWATER CONCERNS, IT'S MET THE DENSITY CONCERNS OR ANY OTHER RELATED PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNS.
THEY'VE CANVASSED THE COMMUNITIES AROUND ORNO TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR CODE AND YOUR APPROACH IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND HAVE CONCLUDED THAT THE APPLICATION IS APPROPRIATE.
IT MEETS YOUR STANDARDS AND IT OUGHT TO BE APPROVED.
IF THE COUNCIL DISAGREES FOR SOME REASON WITH THAT RECOMMENDATION, IT'S YOUR OBLIGATION TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC REASONS BASED ON THE RECORD BEFORE YOU THAT JUSTIFY A DIFFERENT DECISION.
THAT REASON CAN'T BE SPECULATION.
IT CAN'T BE A POPULARITY CONTEST.
IT'S GOT TO BE FACT BASED AND IT'S GOT TO BE BASED ON WHAT'S BEEN ACCUMULATED THROUGH THE RECORD.
THE RECORD IN THIS CASE IS REALLY QUITE CLEAR, FRANKLY, WHILE THERE WAS OPPOSITION BASED ON PARKING AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION LEVEL.
IT WAS NOT ARTICULATED BASED ON A CODE STANDARD.
IT WAS NOT ARTICULATED BASED ON THE SURVEY OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES AND WHAT THEY FOUND WAS NECESSARY FOR A REASONABLE AND APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF PARKING.
THE CITY HAS DETERMINED WHAT THAT STANDARD SHOULD BE IN THIS CASE AND THE APPLICANT HAS MET THAT STANDARD.
WE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGE YOUR SUPPORT THIS EVENING.
IF YOU HAVE GOT QUESTIONS, IF YOU'VE GOT CONCERNS, WE'RE OBVIOUSLY HERE TO ANSWER THEM.
WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU THIS EVENING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? QUESTIONS FROM COUNSEL.
THERE'S A SIMILAR COMPLEX THAT HOSTS A WEEKLY CARS AND COFFEE.
DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR? MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. IT'S QUITE A POPULAR EVENT AMONG CAR ENTHUSIASTS WHO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE STRUCTURES AND AND THE COMMUNITY THAT SURROUNDS IT AND BRINGS IN SPECTATORS FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE AND IT'S A NICE COMMUNITY EVENT WHERE PEOPLE JUST HAVE SOME COFFEE AND WALK AROUND AND LOOK AT CARS BECAUSE THEY OPEN UP THEIR DOORS TO THEIR GARAGES AND PUT THEIR CARS ON DISPLAY, AND IT'S NICE.
SO I WAS WONDERING IF YOU ENVISIONED A SIMILAR COMMUNITY EVENT AND IF THE LEVEL OF PARKING WOULD CHANGE BASED ON HAVING LOTS OF PEOPLE COME ON SATURDAYS.
>> I CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THAT.
ONE OF THE CRITERIA THAT WAS IDENTIFIED WHEN WE ADOPTED THE CODE WAS ABOUT UPHOLDING EVENTS.
CRITERIA B HERE, THE PREMISE SHALL NOT BE USED FOR CUSTOMIZED RESIDENTIAL LIVING PURPOSES OR COMMUNITY GATHERINGS OR EVENTS.
THE DEVELOPER IS WITHIN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, WHICH DOES NOT SUPPORT LIVING AND DWELLING WAS A FINDING OF STAFF.
THE COVENANT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT INCLUDES PROHIBITION OF LIVING DWELLING OF THE UNITS, AS WELL AS EVENTS, AND THEN THEIR COVENANT DEFINED EVENTS.
SOMETHING THAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING IS THAT WE LIST THAT DEFINITION AS A CONDITION WITHIN OUR APPROVAL.
THE PREMISE SHALL NOT BE USED FOR RESIDENTIAL LIVING PURPOSES ON COMMUNITY GATHERINGS OR EVENTS.
EVENTS IN THIS CONTEXT MEANS OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES ON THE PROPERTY, SUCH AS PROMOTIONAL EVENTS, GATHERINGS, DEMONSTRATIONS, DISPLAYS, OR OTHER ACTIVITIES WHICH AFFECT ANY EASEMENT OR USE RIGHT, OBSTRUCTION DRIVEWAY, ACCESS ROADS OR COMMON ELEMENTS.
THAT'S A STAFF RECOMMENDING THAT AS A LISTED CONDITION AS ATTACHED TO THIS CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
>> THAT WOULD JUST GO INTO THEIR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, ESSENTIALLY, WHATEVER THEY.
>> THEY DRAFTED THIS DEFINITION AS PART OF THEIR COVENANTS AND THEN I'M RECOMMENDING WE TAKE THAT SAME DEFINITION AND LIST IT AS A CONDITION FOR OUR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT SO THEY ARE IN SYNC.
>> WOULD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE TO THE APPLICANT?
>> DO YOU HAVE HOURS OF OPERATION WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ACCESS IN AND OUT? WHAT ARE THOSE TIMES THAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT?
>> THEY DID IDENTIFY HOURS OF OPERATION. THANK YOU, ROB.
[02:00:04]
>> STAFF'S ALSO RECOMMENDING THAT AS A LISTED CONDITION LISTED WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHICH IS 6:00 A.M TO 10:00 P.M, AND THEN SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.
HOW ABOUT OVERNIGHT PARKING OUTSIDE OF THE CONDOS.
>> THE OFF STREET PARKING ISN'T NECESSARILY A DEFINED METRIC THAT WE HAD IN OUR CODE FOR THIS TYPE OF USE.
THROUGH THE RESEARCH OF STAFF THROUGH OTHER COMMUNITY CITIES AND HOW THEY'RE PROPOSING TO USE THE SITE, THEY ANTICIPATED THAT ALL PARKING WOULD BE BASICALLY ADOPTED WITHIN EACH INDIVIDUAL GARAGE UNIT, AND THERE WOULDN'T BE A NEED FOR PARKING WAS UNDER THE APPLICANT'S RECOMMENDATION.
I DON'T HAVE A LISTED CONDITION FOR PARKING OUTSIDE THE DEVELOPMENT.
THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING YOU GUYS CAN DISCUSS.
BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY WOULD JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW WHATEVER CITY STREET PARKING STANDARDS WE HAVE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
>> IS IT DEFINED IN YOUR COVENANTS?
>> I BELIEVE IT WAS DEFINED IN THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT NO OVERNIGHT PARKING IS ALLOWED.
NO OUTDOOR STORAGE OR OVERNIGHT PARKING IS ALLOWED WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT.
>> THAT'S ALSO IN THE COVENANTS.
HOW DO THOSE RULES GET ENFORCED?
>> MR. MAYOR, THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS ALWAYS SUBJECT TO REVIEW BY THE CITY COUNCIL.
IF THE APPLICANT IS NOT SATISFYING ITS CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, THE COUNCIL COULD BRING THE APPLICANT BEFORE THE COUNCIL AND ASK FOR AN EXPLANATION.
IF THE CITY WERE TO IDENTIFY ACTIONABLE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, IT WOULD BE CERTAINLY WITHIN YOUR PREROGATIVE TO ASK THE DEVELOPER TO MAKE CHANGES, AND IF THEY'RE REASONABLE, I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO DO THAT, BUT THAT'S WITHIN THE CITY'S CONTROL.
OF COURSE, THE ASSOCIATION ITSELF IS SELF ENFORCING BASED ON THEIR BOARD OF DIRECTORS JUST LIKE AN HOA IS.
>> THAT WAS THE ANSWER I WAS LOOKING FOR.
>> DO WE HAVE AN IDEA THAT I THINK THIS IS FOR STAFF MAGGIE, PROBABLY, OR MAYBE NOT.
THE IMPACT TO PROPERTY TAX REVENUE FOR THE CITY?
>> I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE AN ANALYSIS ON PROPERTY TAX REVENUE.
THIS IS CURRENTLY A VACANT LOT.
WHAT WILL INCREASE IN VALUE AS A DEVELOPMENT IN THAT, AND THEN WE DID INCLUDE IN THE ANALYSIS AND EXHIBIT B, I BELIEVE, A TABLE ABOUT THE REQUIRED DEVELOPMENT FEES REGARDING SEWER AND WATER CONNECTIONS.
>> THANKS. I ASKED LAURA THE TIMELINE OR THE HISTORY A BIT OF THIS TEXT AMENDMENT BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY MEMBER OF COUNCIL THAT WAS HERE LAST YEAR WHEN THIS WAS DISCUSSED, AND THIS ISSUE LOOKS QUITE SIMPLE, BUT IT'S VERY NUANCED.
THERE, I THINK, ARE CONSERVATIVELY FOUR HOURS OR MORE OF PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS, PROBABLY.
ON THIS ISSUE SPECIFICALLY, AND I'VE WATCHED ALL OF THEM AND IT'S VERY NUANCED.
UNFORTUNATELY, LAST DECEMBER, WE WERE WORKING WITH A DIFFERENT COUNCIL AND THE COUNCIL AT THAT TIME.
THIS WAS A REGULAR AGENDA ITEM PASSING THIS TEXT AMENDMENT.
THAT ITEM WAS MOVED TO CONSENT AND PASSED WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION, AND I HAD DISCUSSION FOR THAT ITEM BECAUSE THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT.
THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE IN OUR CITY AND IT'S A REZONING.
PART OF THE ISSUE AT PLAY HERE IS THAT YOU HAD A TERM IN YOUR REPORT.
THE SOCIOLOGICAL IMPACT OF THIS DEVELOPMENT IS ENTIRELY UNKNOWN IN OUR CITY.
I APPRECIATE THAT WE HAVE COMPARABLES NOW WITH REGARD TO OTHER CITIES SUCH AS THE ONES NAMED.
I THINK A NEW HOPE WAS ONE EGAN.
THE AVERAGE HOME VALUE IN THOSE CITIES AND THE EXPECTATION IN THOSE CITIES MAY BE VERY DIFFERENT IN THIS CITY.
IT'S TRUE THAT PLANNING ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKING AND CONSIDERATIONS AND THESE USE CASES BECAUSE WE'RE A LAKE SHORE CITY VERSUS THE USE CASES IN A CITY THAT'S FURTHER OUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE LAKE THAT MAY NOT BE STORING BOATS.
THE ISSUE WITH THIS PROJECT COMES INTO PLAY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE USE CASE FOR THESE GARAGE CONDOS.
WE'VE REZONED TO ACCOMMODATE THIS, AND PLANNING WAS VERY FIRM IN THEIR LAST MEETING ABOUT THE GUIDANCE FOR THIS PLAN IN THAT A,
[02:05:01]
IT WAS TOO DENSE AND B, THERE WAS SERIOUS CONCERN OVER PARKING BECAUSE THE ASSUMPTION HERE IS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME TO THESE UNITS TO BRING OUT BOATS OR WORK ON CARS, AND IF THEY BRING FRIENDS WITH THEM OR WHATEVER ELSE, THERE'S SIMPLY NOT GOING TO BE ANY PLACE FOR THOSE PEOPLE TO PARK.IF YOU HAVE TWO SPOTS IN ONE OF THOSE GARAGE CONDOS AND YOU COME IN AND YOU ALREADY HAVE A VEHICLE IN THERE THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON AND YOU GET A FRIEND COMING BY OR WHATEVER ELSE, THERE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH PARKING TO ACCOMMODATE THIS AREA.
PART OF THE RECOMMENDATION AND THE 41 VOTE ON THE LAST MEETING WAS THE PLANNING COMMISSION SAYING, WE KNOW OUR RESIDENTS, WE KNOW OUR CITY, AND WE KNOW THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE MEETING AT A AREA LIKE THIS TO TRANSFER BOATS OR TO HAVE A SOCIAL EVENT OR WHATEVER ELSE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE DOING EVENTS HERE.
THAT'S CLEAR. BUT THE LOGISTICS, I DON'T LIVE ON THE LAKE.
I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ALL THE BOAT CULTURE.
HOWEVER, THE PLANNING COMMISSION GAVE THIS VERY THOROUGH HOURS OF BACK AND FORTH ON THIS.
THE IDEA THAT FOLKS WOULD MEET UP HERE, BRING A BOAT OUT, PUT SOMETHING ELSE IN THEIR LOGISTICS AROUND HOW THAT PROCESS HAPPENS, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A QUICK IN QUICK OUT DEAL.
IF YOU HAVE COLLECTOR CARS BEING OFFLOADED ON A FLATBED, THERE WAS HOURS OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE NUANCES OF THIS COMMUNITY AND HOW THE SPACE IS GOING TO BE USED AND A REAL CONCERN THAT SOMETHING THAT LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER IS NOT GOING TO TRANSLATE WELL.
I WOULD SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOW DENSITY USE HERE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S LOW EXPECTATION.
PART OF MY CONCERN IS THAT FOR THE FOLKS WHO BUY, BECAUSE THIS IS A PURCHASE, BUY ONE OF THESE GARAGE CONDOS.
WHAT IS THEIR EXPECTATION GOING IN ABOUT THE FACT THAT IF THEY MOVE IN AND HAVE SOMEBODY COME OR A COUPLE PEOPLE, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO HAVE PLACES TO PARK.
BECAUSE IF YOU OWN A CONDO THAT HAS, LET'S SAY, THREE SPOTS AND ONE OF THEM IS TAKEN UP WITH A BOAT AND A COUPLE OF ATVS, AND THEN YOU PARK IN THERE TO WORK ON THINGS AND SOMEBODY ELSE COMES TO VISIT, AND THEN YOU MULTIPLY THAT BY 85.
PART OF THE ISSUE IS, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT HOLDING EVENTS HERE, WHAT ARE THE ACTUAL LOGISTICS OF USE.
UNLESS YOU'VE WATCHED ALL 3-3 HOURS OF PLANNING, WHICH I DID, IT IS A VERY NUANCED ISSUE.
PART OF THE CONCERN IS THAT OUR CITY IS NOT LIKE EVERY OTHER CITY.
OUR RESIDENTS ARE NOT LIKE EVERY OTHER CITY.
EVERY CITY IS WONDERFUL AND UNIQUE AND SPECIAL, BUT WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT THIS IS RIGHT FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
I HEAR WHAT LEGAL REPRESENTATION WHO HAS NOT COME BEFORE COUNSEL IN THE PAST, TO MY RECOLLECTION, IS SAYING HERE TONIGHT.
THIS IS PART OF MY CONCERN ABOUT THE FACT THAT OUR CITY WITHOUT DISCUSSION, UNFORTUNATELY, PASSED A TEXT AMENDMENT ALLOWING A BRAND NEW PROJECT IN A CITY WHERE IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS.
ENFORCEMENT IS ANOTHER ONE OF THEM BECAUSE IT DOES FALL ON OUR EMERGENCY SERVICE OR POLICE RESPONDERS AND OUR CITY IN GENERAL, IF THEY'RE GETTING COMPLAINTS.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THE APPLICANT, AND I THINK THE APPLICANT MENTIONED THIS THAT YOU HAVE ANY THINK YOUR WORDS WERE DESIRE OR INTENT NECESSARILY TO MANAGE THIS.
THIS MANAGEMENT OF THIS WILL BE HANDED OFF TO A DIFFERENT ORGANIZATION ONCE THIS IS IN PLACE.
I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL AT THIS TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHERE OUR LEGAL REQUIREMENTS ARE WITH REGARD TO THIS PROJECT BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, AND THIS COULD INVOLVE MANY EXPECTATIONS OF FOLKS WHO PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR HIGH END PROPERTY IN THE CITY OF ORNO, AND THEIR EXPECTATIONS ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS, ONCE THEY DO GET IN THERE ENJOY THAT SPACE, BECAUSE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS VERY CLEAR, AND IT WAS A 401 VOTE.
THESE ARE EXPERIENCED COMMISSIONERS WHO KNOW THEIR CITY, WHO SAID THIS IS NOT.
THE RECOMMENDATION FROM PLANNING WAS TO ENTIRELY REMOVE ONE OF THOSE THREE INTERIOR BUILDINGS, REMOVE ONE OF THOSE COMPLETELY AND TO ADD MORE PARKING, AND THERE WERE MANY GOOD REASONS TO DO THAT.
I THINK THIS IS NOT AS SIMPLE OF A FIX NECESSARILY AS ADDING THE SEVEN HIGHLIGHTED SPACES THAT YOU SEE THERE TO THE LEFT.
IT WAS A VERY NUANCED DISCUSSION, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO JUST TAKE A STEP BACK AND CONSIDER OUR OPTIONS HERE.
>> COUNCIL MEMBER BENSON, WHEN YOU SAY THE PARAMETERS, YOU WANT ME TO SPEAK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE APPLICATION.
I THINK COUNSEL COYLE DID LAY OUT SOME THINGS.
I WILL GIVE YOU MY IMPRESSION ON THIS.
WHICH IS THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN REZONED, AND REZONING,
[02:10:01]
MUCH LIKE A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT, IS WHERE CITIES IN MY OPINION HAVE THE GREATEST AUTHORITY.THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY WHERE UNLESS YOU VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION OR EXCEED THE STATUTORY SCOPE, A COURT GIVES DEFERENCE TO THE COUNCIL AND SAYS, LOOK, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SECOND-GUESS THE DECISION.
EVEN IF THEY DISAGREE WITH IT, AS LONG AS YOU'RE WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THE AUTHORITY GRANTED TO.
I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTIONS BEHIND THE PROCEDURE.
LAURA LAID OUT THE PROCEDURE AND THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION OF IT TOO.
BEYOND THAT, SO WHAT'S BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IN TERMS OF WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN TERMS OF SCOPE OF DECISION MAKING, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
WHAT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, WHEN THAT'S LISTED IN YOUR CODE, SAYS IS THAT YOU HAVE AS A COUNCIL, AND I UNDERSTAND IT WAS A PREVIOUS COUNCIL, BUT YOU AS A COUNCIL HAVE SAID, "WE BELIEVE THIS IS A AUTHORIZED AND APPROPRIATE USE FOR THAT AREA." A DISCUSSION OF IS IT AN APPROPRIATE USE, IN SOME RESPECTS, IS OFF THE TABLE AS WE SIT HERE TONIGHT.
THEN IT BECOMES AN EXAMINATION FROM MY PERSPECTIVE OF, HAVE THEY MET THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAT YOU'VE LAID OUT IN YOUR CITY CODE AS IT RELATES TO CAR CONDOS? IT'S TRUE.
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE ANY CAR CONDOS IN THE CITY OF ORONO.
IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE WORKED ON OR I'VE WORKED ON BEFORE.
STAFF DID A NICE JOB, IN MY OPINION, OF LOOKING AT SURROUNDING AREAS BOTH TO SEE WHAT TERMS AND CONDITIONS THOSE COMMUNITIES HAVE PUT IN PLACE, WHAT LESSONS THEY'VE LEARNED FROM MANAGING THOSE CAR CONDOS OVER THE YEARS.
WERE THERE ANY SHORTCOMINGS THAT THEY HAD A SECOND CHANCE AT IT? WHAT WOULD THEY INCLUDE TO TRY AND ADDRESS? ORONO DID GET THE BENEFIT OF TALKING TO OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THESE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AT THIS POINT AND TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS.
I THINK LAURA STATED SOME OF THE BIGGER THINGS, AT LEAST WERE TALKING POINTS.
A COMMUNITY EVENT AND A COFFEE CAN BE SEEN AS BOTH A POSITIVE THING AND PERHAPS A NEGATIVE THING DEPENDING ON YOUR VIEW.
STAFF HAS PUT IN THEIR RECOMMENDATION AS IT RELATES TO THAT ITEM TO TRY AND REDUCE SOME OF THE INTENSITY OF THE USE, IF YOU WILL.
WHEN I TALKED ABOUT, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO DO A ZONING CODE AMENDMENT OR A COMP PLAN, AND THAT'S A LEGISLATIVE DECISION, WHAT THE COURTS HAVE SAID, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL DECISION, MEANING THIS ISN'T A DO YOU WANT IT OR NOT WANT IT? THAT'S MORE OF A LEGISLATIVE DECISION.
BUT IT'S NOW THAT YOU'VE ESTABLISHED THE LAW, HAS THE APPLICANT MET THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF YOUR CODE? THAT'S WHAT STAFF PUTS IN THEIR REPORT AND PUTS FORWARD.
I FOUND IT INTERESTING BEFORE TODAY'S MEETING, WE DID, WE HAD A NICE DISCUSSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND DID SOME LAND USE TRAINING.
WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW FACES, AND SO JUST AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE APPROPRIATE CONSIDERATIONS FOR ON APPLICATIONS ARE.
I FELT THAT WAS VERY ENGAGING AND GOOD, AND THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD TAKEAWAYS AND QUESTIONS FROM SOME OF THESE VERY QUESTIONS.
ALSO BEFORE YOU IS THE PRELIMINARY PLAT AND SITE PLAN, AND CANDIDLY, THAT'S THE SAME IDEA IS, ONCE YOU'VE ESTABLISHED THIS AS A USE, HAVE THEY MET THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF NOT ONLY THE CONDITIONAL USE, BUT ANY SITE PLAN AND PLAT APPROVAL ISSUES AS IT RELATES TO IT? THE CODE GOVERNS WHAT KIND OF DENSITY IS ALLOWED.
THE CODE IS SILENT ON PARKING, AT LEAST OFF-STREET, BECAUSE I THINK IN SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS, IT HASN'T BEEN FOUND TO BE MUCH OF AN ISSUE, DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T BE HERE, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN CONTEMPLATED AND PUT FORTH.
I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS TRIED TO PUT SOMETHING BEFORE YOU FOR THAT, WHETHER THAT'S SATISFACTORY, COUNCIL MEMBER BENSON, FOR YOUR CONCERNS, IS A GOOD DISCUSSION POINT THAT HAD BEEN RAISED ON PARKING, BASED ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION.
THOSE ARE THE LEGAL STANDARDS, IS, HAVE THEY MET THEIR CODE? I AGREE WITH WHAT MR. COYLE HAD STATED, THAT IS, IF THEY DO MEET THE CONDITIONS OF YOUR CODE, AND WHAT THE LAW SAYS, THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT THE CUP SHOULD BE ISSUED.
THAT'S HIGH LEVEL. I'M CERTAINLY WILLING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF THERE'S DETAILS ABOUT PARKING OR OTHER ITEMS.
>> PARKING IS THE MAIN CONCERN.
I UNDERSTAND THAT WE NEED, WHAT IS IT, 290 SOMETHING AROUND THERE? IS THAT IT, LAURA?
>> LET ME BRING UP THE ANALYSIS THAT WE DID FOR PARKING.
PARKING ISN'T A CONDITION OF THE CUP, BUT MORE A STANDARD OF A SITE PLAN REVIEW.
THE CURRENT PLAN ANTICIPATES PARKING WITH EACH INDIVIDUAL UNIT AND ALLOWS FOR LOADING AND PARKING DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF EACH UNIT.
THE APPLICANT'S BUSINESS MODEL INDICATES THAT EACH UNIT WILL ACCOMMODATE THE NECESSARY PARKING FOR EACH OWNER.
THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICANT IS STATING AS PART OF THE APPLICATION.
THE CITY CODE DID NOT LIST ANY PARKING STANDARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE GARAGE CONDO USE, AND THE APPLICANT IS NOT PROPOSING ANY OUTDOOR PARKING
[02:15:01]
AT THE TIME BEFORE THEY SUBMITTED THIS AMENDMENT.STAFF DID JUST DO A HIGH LEVEL ANALYSIS OF IF WE HAD TO CATEGORIZE THIS GARAGE CONDO AS A USE, WHERE WOULD IT FALL WITHIN OUR CURRENT CODE? THE CLOSEST USE WE HAD IN OUR CITY CODE WAS A MULTI-TENANT INDUSTRIAL BUILDING.
THAT TRIGGERS A ONE SPACE FOR EACH 400 FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA.
BASED ON THAT PROVISION, A TOTAL OF 235 PARKING SPACES SHOULD BE PROVIDED.
WHEN WE WERE DOING THE ANALYSIS WITH THE APPLICANT'S IDEA THAT THEY WILL ADDRESS INDOOR PARKING, SO EACH UNIT WILL EAT ITS OWN PARKING, ESSENTIALLY.
THAT WOULD REQUIRE EACH UNIT TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE 2.7 PARKING SPACES TO CONFORM.
AS DESIGNED, EACH UNIT WOULD SUPPORT 2-4 SPACES OF ENCLOSED SPACE, AND THAT'S A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE.
SIXTY OF THE LARGER UNITS WOULD SUPPORT FOUR CARS PER UNIT, AND THEN 25 OF THE SMALLER WOULD SUPPORT TWO.
THE RESULTS WOULD BE 290 INDOOR-PARKING SPACES PROVIDED ON THE SITE PLAN OF THE 85 UNITS.
ADDITIONALLY, THE SITE LAYOUT FOR LOADING AND PARKING DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF EACH UNIT IS ANTICIPATED AS THE APPLICANT'S BUSINESS MODEL, AND THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED ADDITIONAL PARKING PLANS AND MANEUVERABILITY PLANS.
I DO HAVE SOME MANEUVERABILITY PLANS THAT SHOW SOME 90-DEGREE PARKING AND MANEUVERABILITY, AS WELL AS THE PARALLEL.
BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT STAFF WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS HERE WAS THAT THERE'S NOT A PARKING STANDARD SET OUT IN THE TEXT AMENDMENT.
BUT IF WE DID AN ANALYSIS ON WHAT THE CODE HAS FOR MULTI-TENANT, IT WOULD RESULT IN 235 PARKING SPACES NEEDED.
UNDER THE APPLICANT'S BUSINESS MODEL, THEY CAN ADDRESS 290 INDOOR STALLS.
THE APPLICANT TONIGHT HAS SUBMITTED A PARKING PLAN BASED ON PLANNING COMMISSION'S DISCUSSION FOR THE NEED OF PARKING OUTSIDE OF THE UNIT.
THE APPLICANT IS SHOWING A PARALLEL SPOT IN FRONT OF EACH UNIT, AND THEN SEVEN ADDITIONAL SPACES, RESULTING IN 92 PARKING OUTSIDE OF EACH UNIT.
THERE'S A DISCUSSION POINT FOR THE COUNCIL TONIGHT.
YOU'RE COUNTING A PARKING SPOT IF PEOPLE PARK PARALLEL IN FRONT OF THE GARAGE DOOR, IS THAT CORRECT?
>> IF I PULL IN, I'M GOING TO PULL MY BOAT OUT AND SAY SOMEONE ELSE COMES WITH ME, HOW DO I GET ACCESS TO WHAT'S INSIDE THE GARAGE IF I'M PARKING PARALLEL IN FRONT OF THE DOOR?
>> A HIGH LEVEL, THIS USE IS FOR STORAGE, AND SO THE IDEA IS, YES, PEOPLE WILL BE COMING AND GOING AND DROPPING STUFF OFF AND MOVING.
BUT THERE'S NO DWELLING ON THE SITE.
PEOPLE AREN'T INTENDED TO BE GATHERING HERE.
IT WAS MORE TEMPORARY IN NATURE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO FACILITATE IN AND OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AND NOT PERMANENT PARKING IS THE IDEA WITH THE ANALYSIS HERE.
>> I DO UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU ALSO HAD US READ PUBLIC COMMENTS, AND A MAJORITY OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS BECAUSE THEY COULD PARK THEIR BOATS IN IT.
I'M STILL HAVING A HARD TIME IF I'M GOING TO PARK MY CAR IN FRONT OF THE DOOR, HOW AM I GOING TO GET MY BOAT IN?
>> BECAUSE YOUR CAR IS PULLING, YOU'RE COMING WITH SOMEBODY WHILE THEY'RE DROPPING THE BOAT OFF?
>> I'M JUST SAYING IF I'M GOING TO BE PARKED IN FRONT OF THE GARAGE, THAT'S MY PARKING SPOT.
>> I GUESS I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.
I'M SORRY, JEFF, COULD YOU REPHRASE?
>> WITH IT YOU HAVE THIS. PARKING IS PARALLEL IN FRONT OF THE GARAGE DOOR.
IF I COME IN, SAY WITH TWO CARS BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FIX SOMETHING IN THE BOAT, AND WE'RE GOING TO BRING THE BOAT OUT THAT DAY, SO WHERE ARE WE GOING TO PARK? BECAUSE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO PARK PARALLEL.
BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, THAT FIRST LANE IS NARROWER THAN THE OTHER LANES, AND IF PEOPLE DON'T PARK PARALLEL, THEY CAN'T GET A FIRE TRUCK THROUGH THAT LANE. CORRECT?
>> THIS DRIVE WIDTH IS 40 FEET WIDE.
THE REST OF THE DRIVE WIDTHS ARE 50.
A STANDARD PARALLEL, IF SOMEONE IS PARKING THERE, IF WE WERE GOING TO MAKE OR INSTALL PARALLEL PARKING, IT'S A 10-FOOT-WIDE PARALLEL SPOT.
IF, FOR EXAMPLE, ON THEIR PARKING PLAN HERE, THEY ARE SHOWING PARALLELS HERE, AND I SHOULD NOTE THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING THIS AS A PROOF OF PARKING, NOT NECESSARILY STRIPING, WHICH IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I'VE POSED TO YOU ABOUT IF THEY SHOULD BE INSTALLED OR IF PROOF OF PARKING IS ADEQUATE, THERE DOES ALLOW FOR A FIRE LANE TO ALWAYS REMAIN OPEN.
I WOULD PROBABLY RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT SPEAK TO THE USE AND HOW PEOPLE MANEUVER AROUND THE SITE SINCE
[02:20:04]
THEY ARE THE EXPERTS ON THAT AND HOW THEY ANTICIPATE THE USE OF PARKING AND MANEUVERABILITY.BUT I CAN SHOW YOU THE PARKING PLAN OR THE MANEUVERABILITY PLANS THAT THEY'VE SUBMITTED.
>> I HAD A QUESTION. HAVE YOU DONE AN ASSESSMENT OF HOW MANY TIMES THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY YOU ANTICIPATE IT BEING VISITED ON A DAILY BASIS?
>> COUNCIL MEMBER, THE BEST EXPERIENCE IS WHAT THE CUSTOMER IS GOING TO WANT TO USE THEIR PROPERTY FOR.
IT'S THEIR PROPERTY. THEY CAN COME ONCE A DAY, THEY CAN COME ONCE A WEEK, THEY CAN COME ONCE A MONTH.
BUT THAT'S THE NATURE OF A PRIVATE USE, NO DIFFERENT THAN AN INDUSTRIAL STORAGE BUILDING OR AN INDUSTRIAL WAREHOUSE BUILDING OR YOUR RESIDENTS FOR THAT MATTER.
I WOULD SAY RESPECTFULLY, YOU'RE ASKING GREAT QUESTIONS, COUNCIL MEMBERS.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE CODE IS WHAT DRIVES THE DECISION HERE, AND I SAY THIS VERY RESPECTFULLY.
BUT CONJECTURE AND OPINION, THAT'S PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE DECISION THAT ESTABLISHED THE ZONING AUTHORITY FOR THE USE ITSELF.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED THE ZONING CHANGE.
THEY THOUGHT THAT THIS USE WAS APPROPRIATE FOR THE CITY.
THE ONLY QUESTION FOR YOU THIS EVENING, AND I SAY THIS VERY RESPECTFULLY, BECAUSE I HEAR THE INTENSITY OF THE QUESTIONS YOU'RE RAISING, HAVE WE MET THE STANDARDS THAT THE CITY HAS ADOPTED IN ITS CODE? YOUR STAFF HAS CONFIRMED THAT WE HAVE DONE SO.
THE BASE PLAN PROVIDED THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT THE STAFF ANALYSIS DEMONSTRATED MIGHT BE NEEDED.
THE PROOF OF PARKING PLAN IS SIMPLY TO SAY, IF YOU WANT US TO SHOW THAT WE COULD PARK MORE CARS, WE CAN DO THAT BASED UPON THE PLAN.
BUT, BY THE WAY, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT CAN USE THE PROPERTY ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE OWNERS OR THEIR INVITED GUESTS.
BUT THESE ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE NOT OPEN FOR BUSINESS.
THEY'RE NOT OPEN FOR PUBLIC GATHERINGS.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE CRAFT SALES.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE BAZAARS.
IT'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE FOR THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE OF WORKING WITH THEIR VEHICLES, PETTING THEIR VEHICLES IN SOME CASES BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY VALUABLE, MOVING A VEHICLE IN OR OUT, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE THE OWNER DOING THAT.
IT CAN'T BE A THIRD PARTY WHO DOESN'T HAVE A RIGHT TO USE THE SPACE.
I KNOW THAT DIDN'T RESPOND TO YOUR QUESTION DIRECTLY, COUNCIL MEMBER, BUT THAT'S THE BEST I CAN GIVE YOU.
>> I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT, LAURA. WAS IT CHANGED? THERE WAS DISCUSSION, THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, ABOUT A SPECIFIC CASE OF, I THINK IT WAS AUTO REPAIR.
HAS IT BEEN WRITTEN IN THAT THAT CANNOT HAPPEN AT THE SITE, AUTO REPAIR BUSINESS? I THINK PLANNING COMMISSION HAD- [OVERLAPPING] THERE WAS A SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
>> WHEN WE WERE WORKING THROUGH THE TEXT AMENDMENT, THERE WAS LENGTHY DISCUSSION ABOUT COMMERCIAL AND HOW MUCH INDUSTRIAL USE OUTSIDE OF JUST PERSONAL STORAGE.
>> IT'S JUST NOT CUSTOMER FACING, CORRECT?
>> YEAH. NO CUSTOMERS ARE PERMITTED HERE.
YOU COULD DO THE MECHANICS THAT YOU WOULD NEED FOR YOUR PERSONAL USE, BUT YOU COULDN'T SERVICE OTHER PEOPLE'S CARS AND HAVE CUSTOMER-FACING MODEL OF BUSINESS OUT OF THE STORAGE.
>> WHEN THE TEXT AMENDMENT WAS GRANTED, ESSENTIALLY, THE CITY DID NOT HAVE CLARITY IN TERMS OF DICTATING WHETHER OR NOT PARKING WOULD BE CONSIDERED INDOOR OR OUTDOOR.
IT WAS SIMPLY THAT IT NEEDED TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SPACES, BASED ON OCCUPANCY.
THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HAVING THE TROUBLE, IT SOUNDS LIKE, IS THAT WE'RE NO LONGER ABLE TO HAVE ANY SAY IS WHAT I'M HEARING AND WHETHER OR NOT PARKING IS COVERED BECAUSE IT'S IN THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE.
ALLOTTED PARKING IS ACCOUNTED FOR WITHIN THESE INTERIOR SPOTS.
WE HAVE NO ABILITY NOW AT THIS TIME TO ASK THE APPLICANT TO MOVE SOME OF THAT INDOOR ALLOTMENT TO THE OUTDOORS TO ACCOMMODATE MORE PUBLIC AREAS.
WE ARE NOT WITHIN OUR RIGHTS TO DO THAT AT THIS TIME.
>> WELL, I'LL LET SOREN TALK ABOUT THE PARAMETERS OF WHAT WE CAN ASK FOR.
>> IT MAY HELP. I THINK YOU ALWAYS CAN.
THE IDEA THAT THE CODE SETS FORTH THE STANDARD IS WHERE YOU START.
IF THERE'S A COMPELLING REASON OR SOMETHING YOU CAN IDENTIFY BEYOND THAT'S BEEN POINTED OUT, AND THERE'S CASES THAT TALK ABOUT, AND THEY USE THE WORD CONJECTURE.
IF THERE'S SOMETHING BEYOND THAT THAT YOU CAN SHOW THAT IS UNIQUE TO THE SITE OR SOMETHING, THEN I THINK YOU CAN GO BEYOND YOUR CODE.
BUT WHAT IS THAT? IT WOULD NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED AS PART OF THE RECORD.
MAYBE IT WOULD HELP, LAURA, IF YOU EXPLAINED WHEN YOU CAME UP WITH SOME OF THE PARKING ON IT, WHETHER THAT WAS ADVISORY OR WHERE YOU CAME UP WITH YOUR NUMBERS.
[02:25:04]
>> YEAH. THE NUMBERS IN THE ANALYSIS WAS MORE TO SHOW THAT THEY ARE IDENTIFYING PARKING ABOVE AND BEYOND THE HIGHEST STANDARD OF PARKING WE COULD APPLY TO IT IN A SENSE THAT OFF-STREET PARKING FOR MULTI-TENANT INDUSTRIAL ESSENTIALLY RELATES IN THIS DEVELOPMENT TO 2.7 PARKING STALLS PER UNIT ON AVERAGE, WHICH IS A VERY HIGH DEMAND OF PARKING.
THAT'S FOR A MULTI-TENANT INDUSTRIAL USE THAT WOULD HAVE EMPLOYEES, THAT COULD HAVE CUSTOMER FACINGS, THAT COULD HAVE TRAFFIC.
WHAT STAFF WAS TRYING TO SAY WAS, WITH THIS HIGHER INTENSITY OF A USE, WHICH IS MULTI-TENANT INDUSTRIAL, THIS APPLICANT STILL MEETS THAT IN THE SENSE THAT THEY COULD HOUSE PARKING FOR ALL FOR THIS.
IT WAS A HIGH-LEVEL EXAMPLE, NOT SO MUCH A LITERAL STANDARD BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE OFF-PARKING STANDARDS FOR GARAGE CONDOS.
IT WAS MEANT TO MORE ILLUSTRATE THE NUMBER OF PARKING THAT COULD BE DONE WITHIN THE UNIT OR WITHIN THIS DEVELOPMENT.
THAT WAS PROBABLY UNCLEAR IN THE STAFF MEMO REGARDING HOW THAT ANALYSIS CAME OUT.
BUT THROUGH THAT DISCUSSION, STAFF DID REACH OUT TO OTHER COMMUNITIES ABOUT THEIR PARKING STANDARDS FOR THESE GARAGE CONDO DEVELOPMENTS, WHICH I INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET, AND I PUT INTO A TABLE HERE TO BETTER REFERENCE AND FOR BETTER INFORMATION FOR THE COUNCIL FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION.
>> I GO BACK TO THE IDEA THAT THE CITIES LISTED IN THESE COMPARABLES ARE NOT IN ANY WAY REALLY SIMILAR TO THIS ONE.
THEY'RE NOT LAKE SHORE COMMUNITIES, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME DOLLAR VALUE HOME.
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT US SETTING EXPECTATIONS AT THIS DEVELOPMENT.
IT WAS SO CLEAR IN LISTENING TO PLANNING'S CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS THAT THERE WAS REAL CONCERN OVER A SENSE THAT OUR CITY AND THE PEOPLE WHO BUY THESE CONDOS, THE 85 OWNERS, ARE GOING TO HAVE EXPECTATIONS WHEN THEY DRIVE ON SITE ABOUT HOW EASE OF USE HAPPENS.
THIS PLAN ASSUMES THAT WHEN PEOPLE PARK, THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT WITHIN THE LINES RIGHT WHERE THEY NEED TO, AND THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY WITH THEM.
I THINK SOMEBODY HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT JET SKIS OR BOATS.
IF YOU OWN A CONDO AND YOU HAVE A BOAT IN ONE AND AN ATV IN THE OTHER, YOU'RE GOING TO PARK YOUR PARALLEL SPOT RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF IT.
IF ANYONE COMES TO VISIT OR IF ANYONE HAS ANY REASON TO USE THAT AREA, WHERE THEY'RE MAXIMIZING THEIR INDOOR USE.
WE'RE NOT REQUIRING THAT THEY LEAVE THOSE INDOOR SPOTS FOR PARKING.
THEY COULD FILL UP THAT WHOLE UNIT AND STILL WANT SOMEWHERE ELSE TO PARK.
THESE PARKING SPACES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE SIMPLY SQUARE FOOTAGE WITHIN THESE UNITS THAT PEOPLE COULD FILL WITH TOYS, ESSENTIALLY, AND THEN COME TO THE SITE AND HAVE NOWHERE TO PARK.
THAT'S THE ISSUE. MY CONCERN IS NOT TRYING TO DICTATE HOW PEOPLE USE THEIR SPACE, BUT WE'RE SETTING EXPECTATION FOR THESE OWNERS THAT WHEN THEY COME TO THE SITE AND THEY CHOOSE TO FILL THOSE UNITS WITH COLLECTOR CARS OR BOATS OR OTHER THINGS THAT, THE EASE OF USE IN THAT AREA MAY BE VERY DIFFICULT IN REALITY.
I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT SETTING EXPECTATIONS ABOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S NOT THE IDEA OF WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE THERE.
I THINK IT'S A FINE ASSESSMENT, AND PLANNING HAS BEEN SUPPORTIVE IN THAT.
IT'S THE IDEA OF WHAT'S THE REALITY OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN IT IS USED.
THAT'S MY CONCERN IS THAT IS THERE AN ABILITY OF OUR CITY, OUR RESIDENTS, KNOWING THEIR EXPECTATIONS OF A DEVELOPMENT LIKE THIS, WHICH IS BEING BILLED AS HIGH END FOR CARS THAT ARE HIGH VALUE, BOATS THAT ARE PROBABLY HIGH VALUE, FAMILY ACTIVITIES, PEOPLE COMING AND GOING AND HAVING IT BE AN EASY PLACE TO ACCESS THAT DOESN'T CAUSE FRUSTRATION OR ARGUMENTS ABOUT PARKING OR HOW SOMEBODY'S NOT PARKING IN THE LINES.
WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT ALL THOSE FACTORS, THESE ARE THE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO INHERIT WITH THIS PROJECT.
MY QUESTION AGAIN IS, CAN WE REDUCE SOME OF THE BUILDING MASSING AND ACCOUNT FOR MORE ORGANIC USE OF PARKING THAT WOULD REFLECT REALITY OF THIS COMMUNITY AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO MEET PEOPLE THERE, AS ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS SAID.
HE SAID, I MEET MY BUDDIES AT A SITE, WE GET THE STUFF IN AND OUT.
WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE GOING TO PARK WHEN THEY MEET ON SITE HERE? IF YOU'RE MEETING A FEW OF YOUR FRIENDS TO BRING YOUR BOAT OUT OR WHATEVER ELSE? I'M TRYING SO HARD AS A COUNCIL TO ENSURE THAT OUR PUBLIC AND THAT WE'RE APPROVING A PROJECT THAT THEN DOESN'T BECOME A HEADACHE FOR THE FOLKS WHO BUY THESE AND HAVE HIGH EXPECTATIONS ABOUT THE EASE OF USE AND HOW THINGS ARE GOING TO GO.
[02:30:04]
>> I THINK WE'RE PRESUMING THAT THERE IS A CERTAIN RESIDENT AND THAT THE CERTAIN RESIDENTS ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BUY THESE GARAGE CONDOS AND THAT THEY'RE JUST GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND THEY WILL DISREGARD THE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PLACED ON THE PROPERTY.
THAT'S NOT OUR PLACE, I DON'T THINK.
OUR PLACE IS TO SAY, WE AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THIS PROJECT BASED ON THE USES OF CONDITION THAT HAVE BEEN LAID OUT, AND PEOPLE WILL EITHER THINK THAT'S AN ATTRACTIVE THING TO BUY BECAUSE IT FITS WITH THEIR LIFESTYLE AND THE AMOUNT OF EASE OF USE THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, OR THEY WON'T.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DEFINE IN OUR MINDS WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE.
>> BUT I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S RELEVANT TO PARKING.
>> BECAUSE IF THEY KNOW THAT THEY CAN'T HAVE FOUR PEOPLE OVER BECAUSE THERE'S NO PARKING, THEN THEY WON'T.
IF THEY REALLY WANT TO HAVE FOUR PEOPLE OVER, THEY'LL BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PLANNING DID TALK ABOUT IS THE FACT THAT AS THINGS CHANGE HANDS OR PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE RULES, THAT THEY SHOW UP WITH A FEW TRUCKS, AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, WHERE ARE WE SUPPOSED TO PARK? I DO WONDER ABOUT THE REALITIES OF PROBABLY NOT IF, BUT WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WHERE WOULD EXTRA CARS GO IN THIS SCENARIO? LET'S SAY WE HAVE FIVE SPOTS AND THEY'RE TAKEN.
WHERE WOULD OTHER VEHICLES PARK ON THIS PROPERTY OR IN THE STREET?
>> MR. MAYOR AND COUNCIL, AGAIN, EXCELLENT DISCUSSION.
CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK.
THERE MAY BE A POINT THAT'S NOT BEEN FULLY UNDERSTOOD ABOUT THE PARKING.
THE PROOF OF PARKING PLAN THAT THE APPLICANT PREPARED BASED ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, THOSE STALLS ARE FUNGIBLE.
IF ON A RANDOM DAY, TO YOUR POINT, COUNCIL MEMBER, FOUR PEOPLE SHOW UP TO HELP A BUDDY MOVE THEIR BOAT OUT OF THEIR STORAGE UNIT.
THE PARKING THAT'S AVAILABLE IN FRONT OF THE OTHER UNITS, THEY COULD PARK THERE TEMPORARILY IF THEY CHOSE TO BECAUSE IT'S FUNGIBLE. IT'S OPEN.
BEYOND THAT, WE'VE IDENTIFIED PARKING AREAS NOW ON THE NEW PLAN THAT ARE REMOTE FROM THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS.
THERE IS FLEXIBILITY TO ACCOMMODATE THE RANDOM EVENT, AND IT WILL BE A RANDOM EVENT IN WHICH SOMEBODY HAS MULTIPLE PEOPLE WITH THEM AND MULTIPLE VEHICLES FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE BYLAWS SPECIFY THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH THE PROPERTY CAN BE USED.
IF THE THE BUYER DOESN'T ADHERE TO THOSE STANDARDS, THEY CAN BE SANCTIONED BY THE ASSOCIATION AND PENALIZED IN WHATEVER FORM THE ASSOCIATION DECIDES, JUST LIKE WITH THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, JUST LIKE WITH THE SHOPPING CENTER ASSOCIATION, THE SAME RULES APPLY.
BEYOND THAT, AS I SAID AT THE VERY OUTSET, I DIDN'T ANSWER THE MAYOR'S QUESTION DIRECTLY.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF THE CITY FINDS THAT THERE ARE BAD THINGS GOING ON THERE THAT YOU FEEL DON'T SATISFY THE LITERAL INTENT OF YOUR CODE, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO BRING THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION, BACK BEFORE THE COUNCIL, AND IN THE VERY WORST CASE, YOU COULD REVOKE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.
THIS IS A VERY LOW INTENSITY, VERY LOW TRAFFIC USE THAT'S GOING TO MEET A VERY REAL, FRANKLY, MARKET DEMAND WITHIN YOUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU.
>> IF THE CUP IS REVOKED, WHAT HAPPENS THEN WITH THE PROPERTY?
>> THEY LOSE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THE USE.
IT WOULD NOT RESULT NECESSARILY IN THE REMOVAL OF THE BUILDINGS, BUT THE USE ITSELF IN TERMS OF A CAR CONDO.
WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT I'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS OF REVOKING A CUP.
IT HAS TAKEN SOME PRETTY EGREGIOUS CONDUCT BECAUSE THAT WAS IRRECONCILABLE BECAUSE CANDIDLY, WITH THE THREAT OF LOSING THE ABILITY TO DO THE BUSINESS WITH THE OVERHEAD AND THE OWNERSHIP, PEOPLE COMPLY WITH THE RULES, AND YOU PUT FORTH THOSE RULES.
JUST TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR, AND I THINK WE ARE, THERE'S THE COVENANTS THAT THEY'RE DISCUSSING.
TO ME, WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT'S IN THE CUP, AND THAT'S WHY LAURA'S PUT TOGETHER THOSE CONDITIONS, CAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU ENFORCE AND YOU CAN CONTROL.
I'VE SEEN COVENANTS WRITTEN DOWN THAT THEN GET CHANGED.
YOU DON'T CONTROL THAT. YOU DON'T ENFORCE THAT.
IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO US, IT'LL BE MANDATORY THAT WE PUT THOSE IN THE CUP AS LONG AS THEY'RE REASONABLY RELATED TO THE REQUIREMENTS IN YOUR CODE.
THEY ANSWER IS THEY LOSE THE RIGHT TO THE USE, WHICH IS STORE IN THE CARS IN THE CAR CONDO IF THE CUP IS REVOKED.
[02:35:02]
>> I GUESS I JUST HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME WITH THE PUSHBACK.
WHEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION ASKED IF YOU COULD PUT SOME EXTRA PARKING SPOTS IN AND YOU COME BACK WITH SEVEN SPOTS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY'D BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO PARK IN.
AFTER THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'VE HAD AND STUFF, I'M JUST HAVING A REALLY HARD TIME WITH THIS.
INSTEAD OF, I GUESS, COMPLYING, YOU BRING AN ATTORNEY IN WHO EXPLAINED TO US, BUT WE ALREADY KNOW THAT YOU DO MEET THE CODE.
BUT I GUESS I'M HAVING A HARD TIME THINKING WHY YOU CAN'T PUT SOME EXTRA PARKING IN.
WHY THE PUSHBACK? I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE TRYING TO MAXIMIZE YOUR PROFIT AND STUFF, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT JUST SEEMED LIKE A PRETTY EASY REQUEST.
>> I THOUGHT THAT WE SAW IN THE PARKING ANALYSIS THAT THEY HAVE MET A CONDITION, CORRECT?
>> FOR THE SITE PLANT, STAFF BELIEVES THAT THEY'VE MET THE CONDITIONS PUT OUT BY THE CITY CODE.
>> FOR ME THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PARKING AND THE LOT USE.
WHEN I LOOK AT IT, AND I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE CARS AND CAR CONDOS OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
THE REALITY IS IT'S A LOT LIKE PLANE HANGERS WHEN YOU PULL UP TO BUFFALO.
YOU MAY THINK THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE.
THERE NEVER IS. THE REALITY IS, EVEN IF THERE'S 85 UNITS, I WOULD BE SHOCKED TO SEE 20% OF THOSE UNITS BEING ACTIVELY TOUCHED ON ANY GIVEN TIME BECAUSE I'VE WATCHED HOW PRIVATE HANGAR UNITS ARE.
YOU COULD GO ESSENTIALLY THERE ANYTIME AND NEVER SEE SOMEONE PARKED IN FRONT OF A PRIVATE HANGAR.
YOU SEE THIS OPEN PARKING THAT THEY BUILT THAT'S NEVER PARKED IN.
I'M LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARKING THAN OTHERS, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT STAFF HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OF IDENTIFYING CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT STANDARDS FOR THIS, AND BASED UPON MY OBSERVATIONS OF GOING TO A CAR CONDO OR ALSO GOING TO PRIVATE PLANE HANGER, SEEING THE ACTIVITY IN THOSE SPOTS.
>> WHEN YOU WERE SURVEYING OTHER CITIES WHICH DID NOT HAVE ANY OFF STREET PARKING REQUIRED.
>> I FOUND THAT A FEW DID REQUIRE SOME OFF STREET PARKING.
SOME OF THEM WERE REDEVELOPMENTS, LIKE THE CITY OF NEW HOPE.
THAT WAS AN EXISTING WAREHOUSE BUILDING.
THEY WERE REDEVELOPING THAT INTO CAR CONDOS, SO THERE WAS AN EXISTING PARKING LOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE WAREHOUSE THAT THEY MAINTAINED.
THEN SOME CITIES LIKE THE CITY OF MEDINA, DID REQUIRE SOME OFF STREET PARKING, BUT THEY HAD COMMERCIAL FACING FRONTAGE TO THAT DEVELOPMENT.
THAT PARKING WAS TO SERVE THOSE COMMERCIAL AREAS.
EXPLICITLY, WHEN I TALKED TO THOSE CITIES ABOUT OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE GARAGE CONDO USE, MOST OF THEM SAID, NO, THEY DID NOT HAVE ADDITIONAL PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE GARAGE CONDO.
>> THAT HASN'T BEEN AN ISSUE FOR THEM?
>> NO. I ASKED IF THERE'S BEEN COMPLAINTS OR CONCERNS OR ISSUES, AND ALL OF THEM SAID THAT THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED COMPLAINTS OR CONCERNS.
>> HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANY CITIES THAT HAVE COMPLAINTS OR CONCERNS AROUND THESE AND WHAT THEY ARE?
>> I TALKED TO THE CITY OF MEDINA INFORMALLY AND SAID THAT THEY FROM TIME TO TIME, WILL GET CALLS OF LARGE GATHERINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT THEIR DEVELOPMENT IS GEARED TOWARDS MORE COMMUNITY MEETINGS.
THEY ARE HANDLING THAT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY THAN HOW WE'RE HANDLING OUR GARAGE CONDOS, WHICH PREVENTS COMMUNITY MEETINGS.
JUST SOME INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS INTERNALLY ON THAT, BUT NOTHING THAT'S COME TO ANY ACTIONABLE PROCESS.
>> WHO'S INFORMING THE POTENTIAL BUYERS? IS IT THE APPLICANT? WILL YOU BE TALKING TO POTENTIAL BUYERS ABOUT THE PARKING LIMITATIONS HERE? WILL THOSE CALLS COME TO THE CITY?
>> EXCELLENT QUESTION. AS WITH ANY OTHER REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT, IT'S THE OBLIGATION OF THE OWNER TO CONVEY THAT INFORMATION TO THE INTERESTED BUYER.
THE DOCUMENTS THAT INDICATE WHAT THE COVENANTS ARE THAT ARE GOING TO BE RECORDED AGAINST THE LAND, WHICH WILL BIND THE INDIVIDUAL OWNERS, RECEIVE A COPY OF THOSE COVENANTS.
OF COURSE, IF THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE, WE CAN ENSURE THAT THEY GET A COPY OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AS WELL, WHICH SPECIFIES THE TERMS OF APPROVAL
[02:40:02]
SHOULD THE COUNCIL CHOOSE TO APPROVE THE PROJECT THIS EVENING.THAT WOULDN'T BE OBJECTIONABLE ON OUR PART.
>> CUP IS RECORDED AGAINST THE LAND, ALSO THAT RUNS WITH THE LAND.
PARDON ME. THE CUP RUNS WITH THE LAND WOULD SHOW UP IN A TITLE SEARCH.
WHEN YOU GO TO CLOSE ON THESE PARCELS, WHEN YOU GET YOUR TITLE COMMITMENT TOWARD THE APPROVALS AND THOSE CONDITIONS WOULD BE RIGHT NEXT TO THE COVENANTS.
>> CANNOT. THE CUP CANNOT BE CHANGED, AND IT RUNS WITH THE LAND. CANNOT BE REMOVED.
>> WE SEE IT MANY TIMES WHERE SOMEBODY COMES AND BUILDS SOMETHING, AND THEN THE HOMEOWNER WHO BUYS IT IS NOT COMMUNICATED ABOUT THINGS ON THE PROPERTY AND THEN THEY COME TO US FOR VARIANCES.
IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
I UNDERSTAND I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT OUR LEGAL RIGHT HERE BECAUSE BASED ON, I THINK, WHAT THE INTENTION WAS AND THE MANY HOURS OF COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND OUR PLANNING COMMISSION, IT WAS CLEAR THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT THE DENSITY AND THE PARKING.
I SHARE THOSE CONCERNS BECAUSE OUR CITY IS NOT LIKE ANY OF THESE OTHER CITIES.
IF WE ARE LEGALLY UNABLE TO REQUIRE THAT THE APPLICANT REMOVE ONE OF THOSE BUILDINGS AND ADD ADDITIONAL SPACES, I'D LIKE TO BE VERY CLEAR ON THAT.
WE ARE LEGALLY NOT PERMITTED TO REQUIRE OR ASK THAT.
>> WE START WITH IF THEY'VE MET THE CODE, THAT YOU'VE HEARD THAT, I THINK.
ARE YOU LEGALLY ABLE TO? MY ANSWER WOULD BE, YES, YOU ARE LEGALLY ABLE TO.
IF YOU CAN DEFINITIVELY DESCRIBE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AND PRESENT IT.
AGAIN, NOT IN A SPECULATIVE WAY, BUT IN A DEFINITIVE WAY.
IF FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE THAT SHOWS 85 UNITS CREATES THIS PROBLEM, AND THAT WOULD BE MITIGATED BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE 60 UNITS, THEN I THINK YOU CAN.
BUT IF IT IS JUST A GENERALIZED CONCERN AND THEY'VE MET THE CODE, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM IS IN, COUNCIL MEMBER.
>> WE DON'T HAVE, AND AGAIN, I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, WE HAVEN'T DONE THIS BEFORE, SO THESE ARE ALL A LOT OF WHAT IFS. WE DON'T.
I THINK WHAT I KNOW IN SPEAKING TO OUR RESIDENTS, AND WE DO HAVE A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY ACROSS THE STREET, AND THOSE FOLKS HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT INCREASED TRAFFIC, HIGHER DENSITY.
WE AS A CITY ARE COMMITTED TO LOWER DENSITY.
WE ARE COMMITTED TO NOT TAKING ON MORE THAN WE CAN.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS AREA IS INDUSTRIAL.
AS THE APPLICANT SAID IN ONE OF THE OTHER MEETINGS, THERE COULD BE A FACTORY THERE, THERE COULD BE CARS THERE.
WELL, THOSE AREN'T OPERATING WITH TRAFFIC FLOW AND WITH LIGHTING AT 10:00 PM AT NIGHT, AND THESE WILL BE.
OUR RESIDENTIAL IMPACT, WE HAVE GOTTEN LETTERS FROM THOSE FOLKS IN THIS AREA IS SIGNIFICANT.
THE DENSITY, THE LIGHTING, ALL THOSE THINGS PLAY INTO A FACTOR.
IT IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT IN THAT AREA THAT HAS NOT BEEN THERE BEFORE.
MY COMMITMENT HAS BEEN TO, AND I THINK PLANNING ADDRESSED THIS AS WELL, THAT THE DENSITY, THE SCREENING, THE HOURS OF USE, THE LIGHTING, AND THE POTENTIAL FOR MISUNDERSTANDINGS OR PARKING OR HIGHER, I DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THOSE, ABSOLUTELY, BECAUSE OUR CITY, AGAIN, WE ARE NOT WAY FAR WEST IN AN AREA THAT DOESN'T HAVE RESIDENTIAL AREAS AROUND IT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THESE OTHER COMMUNITIES DO, BUT THIS IS AN AREA WHERE THERE HOUSES NEAR.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE DENSITY AS PLANNING SAID, THAT'S MY OPINION.
I WOULD LIKE TO BE REDUCED THERE.
BUT IF WE ARE NOT, WE DON'T HAVE A TEMPLATE FOR THIS IN THE CITY.
WE MADE A TEXT AMEND. WE MADE THIS CHANGE.
WE REZONED. THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY.
>> WITH REGARD TO THE RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY THAT'S ACROSS THE STREET, WHAT'S OUR CODE FOR NUMBER OF PARKING SPOTS PER RESIDENCE?
>> A SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSE REQUIRES TWO PARKING.
THEN I BELIEVE ONE HAS TO BE INTERIOR A COVERED PARKING, AND ONE CAN BE OUTDOOR OR UNCOVERED PARKING.
>> IT'S OF EFFECTIVELY THE SAME DYNAMIC AS WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED.
>> NOW, HERE IT'S INTERIOR PARKING ONLY.
>> NO. IT'S NOT INTERIOR PARKING ONLY.
>> YOU MEAN THE PARALLEL ONE IN FRONT, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, INCLUDING THE ONES INSIDE?
>> ONE INSIDE, ONE OUTSIDE, IS WHAT THE RESIDENTIAL AREA REQUIRES?
>> A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE. YEAH.
>> THIS, I THINK PROVIDES MORE PARKING CAPACITY THAN WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR RESIDENTIAL.
I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT ARGUMENT.
>> YEAH. THIS IS THE REVISED PLAN THAT CAME IN AFTER THE PREVIOUS PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING,
[02:45:01]
WHEN THEY ASKED FOR OUTDOOR PARKING, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM PLANNING IS THAT THEY REDUCE MASSING WITH THE UNITS AND ADD OTHER SPACES OF PARKING.THIS IS ESSENTIALLY UNCHANGED MASSING, EXACT SAME STRUCTURES, AND SIMPLY ASKING THAT PEOPLE PARK NEXT TO THEIR GARAGE.
AGAIN, IF THERE WERE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAD EVERYONE PARKED THERE, THOSE LANES AND MANEUVERABILITY ARE REDUCED.
>> [OVERLAPPING] A FIRE LANE AT ALL TIMES IS WHAT I HEARD.
>> IF ALL THOSE SPACES ARE MET, YOU CAN MANEUVER FIRE TRUCKS IN THERE EASILY?
>> YES. BECAUSE ORIGINALLY, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE PARALLEL PARKING.
THAT'S WHEN IT FIRST CAME UP, CLAIRE.
>> YES. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, THOUGH.
>> CORRECT. WHATEVER WAS PRESENTED BEFORE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY ASKED TO REVISE AND THEY'VE REVISED.
WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM STAFF IS THAT IT'S MEETING THE CONDITIONS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT NOW WHAT WAS BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION BEFORE THEY MADE THE ALTERATIONS.
>> IF I MAY. CHRIS WALLACE, 210 KIN TY LANE, CHAIR OF PLANNING COMMISSION.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THIS ONE BACK AND FORTH.
MY ONLY QUESTION IS, HAVE THEY UPDATED THE MANEUVERABILITY PLAN TO SHOW THESE NEW PARKING SPOTS? THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE.
>> THEY IDENTIFIED A 20 FOOT DRIVE AISLE THROUGHOUT THE SITE, AND THIS WAS SHARED WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WHO SAID THAT THIS WOULD SUPPORT MANEUVERABILITY.
THE MANEUVERABILITY PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED TO PLANNING COMMISSION ALSO SHOWED SOME EXAMPLES OF MOVING WITH TRAILERS AND MOVING AROUND IF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS OF PARKING WAS SET UP.
THIS EXACT PLAN JUST SHOWS SOME REVERSING AND SOME MANEUVERABILITY THAT WAY.
THE PROOF OF PARKING PLAN WAS SENT TO THE FIRE CHIEF AND HE DID NOTE THAT THERE WAS ADEQUATE ACCESS IF EVERY STALL HAD A PARALLEL SPOT IN FRONT OF IT.
>> YOUR LAST DIAGRAM SHOWED THAT SOMEBODY PROBABLY COULDN'T BE BACKING UP THEIR TRAILER IF SOMEBODY WHO WAS PARKED IN THE OPPOSITE SIDE PARALLEL PARKING SPOT.
>> THESE ARE JUST EXAMPLES OF HOW ONE COULD MOVE.
I'M NOT SURE TO SAY THAT ONE COULDN'T BACK UP IF SOMEONE WAS PARALLELED HERE, THAT'S SOMETHING THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE TO EXPLORE.
BUT THE APPLICANT DID SHOW SOME, THIS IS A 40 FOOT DRIVE AISLE, AND THIS IS A 50 FOOT, AND I GUESS IF EVERY STALL HAD PARKING IN FRONT OF IT, IT COULD CREATE CHALLENGES THAT WAY. YEAH.
>> I WOULD RECOMMEND STERN PARKING YOUR BOAT IN THAT CASE.
>> I GUESS I'M NOT OVERLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARKING.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE PARKING VEHICLES INSIDE FOR THE MOST PART, AND I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THEY'VE ADDED THE ABILITY TO DO THE PARALLEL PARKING IN FRONT.
THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME ISSUES, I THINK WITH WHEN SOMEBODY'S PARKED IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S GARAGE, THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME OF THAT.
BUT I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT BUY THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO REALIZE THAT AND KNOW THAT THAT COMES WITH THE TERRITORY.
TO STEVE'S POINT, I DON'T THINK WE'LL HAVE A SITUATION WHERE ALL 85 OF THESE ARE BEING USED AT ONCE, THEY'RE GARAGES.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ANYBODY READY TO CALL THE QUESTION, MAKE A MOTION?
>> COMMISSIONERS AND MAYOR, TONIGHT, STAFF IS JUST ASKING FOR DIRECTION TO DRAFT A RESOLUTION.
I DID NOT INCLUDE A RESOLUTION IN YOUR PACKET TONIGHT.
>> GOT IT. THIS WOULD COME BACK TO COUNCIL FOR A RESOLUTION.
>> WITH THIS DIRECTION, I WOULD DRAFT A RESOLUTION, YES.
>> I THINK THE CRITERIA THAT YOU LISTED THAT SHOULD RUN WITH THE LAND ARE IMPORTANT.
NOT BE CHANGEABLE AFTER THE EFFECT.
>> I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO DIRECT STAFF TO DRAFT A RESOLUTION APPROVING THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT PRELIMINARY PLAT AND SITE PLAN REVIEW WITH THE CONDITIONS IDENTIFIED ABOVE.
>> ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? NONE AT ALL. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE?
>> THOSE OPPOSED SAME SIGN? MOTION CARRIES.
>> DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING RELEVANT ON THIS?
[02:50:02]
>> IS IT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO DO THE AGENDA AND THE ORDER THAT IT'S IN? I FEEL PRETTY STRONGLY THAT WHEN A COUNCIL INVITES GUESTS TO COME AND PRESENT, THAT IT FEELS NOT REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE THESE LONG AGENDA ITEMS HAPPENING WHILE THEY COULD BE CALLED OUT FOR AN EMERGENCY AT ANY MOMENT AND LEFT UNABLE TO PRESENT.
>> I WOULD APPRECIATE IT GOING FORWARD, THAT WHEN GUESTS ARE INVITED, THAT THAT BE CONSIDERED WHEN WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER THE ORDER OF THE AGENDA. THANK YOU.
>> ANYBODY MIND IF WE MOVE 15 AHEAD OF 14?
[15. Long Lake Fire Department Annual Report]
>> WE WOULD LIKE TO CALL FIRE CHIEF HEILAND FROM LONG LAKE FIRE FOR THEIR ANNUAL REPORT. WELCOME.
COUNCIL, MIKE HEILAND, LONG LAKE FIRE.
YOU CAN GET IT UP THERE, ADAM. THANK YOU, SIR.
IF YOU COULD GO TO THE NEXT ONE.
THIS IS BASICALLY OUR LEADERSHIP STAFF AT LONG LAKE.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S STILL HERE.
>> JOHN PASZKIEWICZ, RYAN GONSIOR, SCOTT SPINKS, TED IS HERE, TED WOYCHICK.
JOHN PASZKIEWICZ IS RIGHT HERE.
TAKE A BOW. THEN WE ALSO HAVE THREE LIEUTENANTS, JEFF KRAHL, MATT SMILEY AND BEN BEACH, WHO I THINK IS HERE ALSO.
NEXT. RIGHT NOW, CURRENTLY, OUR ROSTER IS AT 38 MEMBERS.
SIX OF THEM ARE PROBATIONARY, AND WE HAVE TEN MEMBERS AT STATION 2 AND 28 AT STATION 1.
WHAT THIS REPRESENTS HERE IS THE YEARS OF SERVICE FOR ALL OF OUR MEMBERS.
WHEN YOU'RE IN YOUR FIRST 0-5 YEARS, YOU'RE STILL IN THE TRAINING PHASE.
BUT ONCE YOU HIT THE 4-10, 15 YEARS, THAT'S WHEN YOU'RE AT YOUR MOST EFFECTIVE AS A FIREFIGHTER.
THEN YOU GET UP INTO THE 20 YEARS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE FULLY VESTED, AND YOU CAN RETIRE.
IT'S THAT 10-20 YEARS WHERE WE GET THE MOST OUT OF THE GUYS.
RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE ABOUT MAYBE FOUR THAT ARE OVER 20 YEARS, SO THEY COULD STEP OUT ANY TIME.
THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON OVER 30 YEARS CURRENTLY.
NEXT. WHAT THIS SHOWS, IF YOU LOOK IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER, THAT SHOWS HOW MANY CALLS WE HAD LAST YEAR, 466, AND THEN THE COLUMN ON THE LEFT, THAT SHOWS WHAT TYPE OF CALLS THEY ARE.
IF YOU GO TO THE ORONO ON THE TOP, YOU CAN SEE THAT 12 OF THE CALLS WERE EITHER A HOUSE FIRE, CAR FIRE, DUMPSTER FIRE, GRASS FIRE.
THE 93, THAT'S MAINLY MEDICALS.
THEN AS YOU GET DOWN TO THE BOTTOM, 700, 600 ARE MAINLY FIRE ALARMS. THE 600 ARE MAINLY ONES THAT GOT CANCELED OR THEY PUT IN THE PROPER CODE, AND THE 700 ARE ONES THAT WE RESPONDED TO.
OUT OF THE 466 CALLS, ORONO REPRESENTED 291 OF THEM OR 62%.
WHAT THIS SLIDE SHOWS IS THAT IT SHOWS ALL THE CALLS HAVE BEEN INCREASING, BUT THE CALLS THAT HAVE BEEN INCREASING MOSTLY ARE MEDICAL CALLS.
THEN IF YOU LOOK OVER AT 600, AGAIN, CANCELED FIRE ALARMS IS A LOT OF OUR ACTIVITY.
>> ON THAT SCALE, IS THE GREEN ONE 2025 ESTIMATED OR YOU [OVERLAPPING]?
>> FOR 2024, WE ONLY HAD HALF OF THE YEAR FOR PART OF OUR AREA, SO THAT WAS JUST A ESTIMATE.
THEN THIS IS OUR AUTO-AID AND MUTUAL-AID.
OUR AUTO-AID IS, LET'S SAY WE'RE ON THE EAST SIDE OF TOWN, AND THERE'S A CALL THAT WE WOULD WANT YZ TO RESPOND IF THERE WAS A FIRE.
IF THERE'S A CALL IN THAT AREA, YZ WOULD AUTOMATICALLY GET CALLED.
MUTUAL AID IS IF WE NEED MORE THAN THE AUTO AID, AND WE STEP IT UP TO A SECOND ALARM BECAUSE WE NEED MORE RESOURCES OR MANPOWER.
ELEVEN TIMES WE DELIVERED MUTUAL AID AND EIGHT TIMES WE RECEIVED IT, AND FOUR AUTO-AIDS AND TWO AUTO-AIDS RECEIVED. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? BASICALLY, THIS ONE IS SAYING THAT OUR AVERAGE IN SERVICE TIME FOR ONO WAS 8 MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS, BUT OUR OVERALL IN SERVICE TIME TO ALL FOUR CITIES WAS 8 MINUTES AND 10 SECONDS.
OUR AVERAGE FIRST TRUCK ON SCENE TIME.
[02:55:04]
WHAT THIS SHOWS IS FROM 6:00 AM TO 6:00 PM WE AVERAGE 11.8 RESPONDERS PER CALL AND FROM 6:00 AT NIGHT TILL 6:00 IN THE MORNING, WE AVERAGE 13 RESPONDERS PER CALL.THE INTERESTING PART IS, 60% OF OUR CALLS COME BETWEEN 6:00 AM AND 6:00 PM, AND SO 40% COME AT NIGHT.
OUR AVERAGE RESPONDERS PER CALL IN A 24-HOUR PERIOD IS 12.3.
THIS IS TYPICAL EVERY YEAR THAT JUNE AND JULY ARE BUSY MONTHS.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE AT 119 CALLS, AND WE'RE HALFWAY THROUGH APRIL, SO WE'RE GETTING INTO THE BUSY SEASON, AND THE SUMMER IS OBVIOUSLY THE BUSY SEASON, BUT WE ALSO HAVE PARADES AND PANCAKE BREAKFASTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
THERE'S A LOT MORE GOING ON IN THE SCHOOLS, SO WE'RE BUSY WITH OTHER THINGS OTHER THAN JUST RUNNING CALLS.
WE'RE HEADING INTO THE BUSY SEASON.
THIS IS OUR DUTY CREW PROGRAM.
IT'S AN OPTIONAL DUTY CREW PROGRAM.
IT WAS A PILOT PROGRAM AND WE'RE SEEING HOW IT WORK OUT.
IN 2024, THE BLUE COLUMNS SHOW HOW MANY SHIFTS WERE AVAILABLE EACH MONTH AND THEN THE RED LINES WOULD INDICATE HOW MANY SHIFTS WERE ACTUALLY FILLED.
ON THE RIGHT, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE WAS 2,513 AVAILABLE SHIFTS, AND 1,104 OF THEM WERE FILLED.
IF YOU DID IT MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY ON THE BOTTOM, WE FILLED 50.5% OF THE SHIFTS.
IF YOU ADDED SATURDAY IN, WE FILLED 44% OF THE SHIFTS, WHICH WE PUT SATURDAY IN THERE BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY WAS AVAILABLE TO DO THE WORK DAY SHIFTS AND WE'VE SEEN WHAT RESPONSE WE'D GET ON SATURDAYS.
THIS SHOWS WHAT SPECIFICALLY OUR DUTY CREW, THEY AVERAGE IN SERVICE AND ON SCENE TIMES.
YOU CAN SEE THAT IT SAYS OUR AVERAGE IN SERVICE TIME WAS TWO MINUTES AND 24 SECONDS, AND OUR AVERAGE ON SCENE TIME WAS SIX MINUTES AND 58 SECONDS.
LAST YEAR WE HAD THREE MEMBERS THAT RETIRED.
TOM ALDRICH WAS A MEMBER OF LONG LAKE FOREVER.
HE WAS LIKE THE FACE OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
PAUL BUELLMER, HE'S A CLASSIC EXAMPLE.
I TALKED TO HIM LAST YEAR, AND HIS KIDS ARE IN SPORTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
HE SAID WHEN HE HIT 20 YEARS, HE WAS GOING TO RETIRE. IT HAPPENS.
ERIC PALMER, HE'S ONE OF OUR FIREFIGHTERS THAT WAS STATIONED TO A GUY, AND HE JOINED MOUND FIRE LAST YEAR.
THEN THESE ARE NEW PROBATIONARY MEMBERS.
JOHN BROWN, ALEX MCCAHERTY, MITCH NEWBAUER, AIDAN GREGG, SIMONE WARNER, AND NIKO LOPEZ, AND ALL SIX OF THEM WERE IN SCHOOL EITHER FOR EMT OR EMR OR FIREFIGHTER 1, FIREFIGHTER 2.
THEY'RE CURRENTLY ALL IN SCHOOL, AND THEY'RE DOING GREAT.
WE'RE PRETTY LUCKY WE GOT THEM.
WE HAVE ABOUT MAYBE TWO APPLICATIONS IN NOW THIS YEAR SO FAR, BUT WE'RE OPEN TO PICK IT UP A NOTCH.
THESE ARE TWO OF OUR MEMBERS THAT CAME OFF OF PROBATION, LANCE SWEARINGEN AND JESSIE FAUE LAST YEAR.
THEN THIS WOULD SHOW, RIGHT NOW, JEFF KRAHL AND TED WOYCHICK, EACH HAVE 21 YEARS OF SERVICE, SO THEY'RE AT THAT CRITICAL MARK.
BUT RIGHT NOW, JEFF IS A LIEUTENANT, AND TED IS A CAPTAIN.
THEN YOU GO DOWN TO THE 15 YEARS OF SERVICE.
RYAN KANIVE IS A FORMER LIEUTENANT.
CODY FARLEY IS THE ASSISTANT CHIEF.
JOHN PASZKIEWICZ IS A BATTALION CHIEF, MATT SMILEY IS A LIEUTENANT, AND ZACH BERBIG IS A LIEUTENANT IN TRAINING.
HE JUST TOLD ME THE OTHER DAY HE WANTS TO STEP UP.
HERE'S THE IMPORTANT ONE, IS MAY 4TH IS A PANCAKE BREAKFAST.
WE HAVE THE RED HOT 5K COMING UP TO BE DETERMINED, THE FIRE PREVENTION OPEN HOUSE, AND THE AXILLARY TOY DRIVE.
LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU GUYS ALL ON MAY 4TH.
NEXT. LASTLY, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I TRIED TO MAKE IT BRIEF.
BUT JUST FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW, LONG LAKE IS A GOOD FIRE DEPARTMENT, FULL OF GOOD PEOPLE, AND I'M PROUD TO BE FIRE CHIEF OF IT AND THERE'S A GREAT COMMUNITY THAT WE SERVE IN HERE,
[03:00:06]
AND WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO CONTINUING OUR CULTURE OF EXCELLENCE. THANK YOU.>> JUST ONE. THANK YOU AND ALL OF OUR WONDERFUL PUBLIC SERVANTS AND FIREFIGHTERS.
WE TREASURE YOU AND CAN'T FEEL SAFE WITHOUT YOU. THANK YOU.
>> AM I UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY THAT YOU'VE DEPLOYED THE DUTY CREW MODEL IN 2024?
HAVE YOU SEEN IMPROVEMENTS IN CALL TIMES?
>> OH, IT DEFINITELY MAKES A DIFFERENCE HAVING THE ADDITIONAL PERSONNEL AROUND THE STATION.
HOPEFULLY, SOMEBODY WILL WORK TOWARDS HAVING IT MANDATORY TO HAVE STAFFING DURING THE DAY.
>> GOT IT. GREAT. THE SERVICE HAS IMPROVED SINCE 2023.
>> NOW WE WILL MOVE TO NUMBER 14, MAGGIE.
[14. First Quarter Financial Update]
>> THANK YOU, MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
TONIGHT, I WILL BE PRESENTING A BRIEF UPDATE ON THE FIRST QUARTER 2025 FINANCIAL UPDATE.
FIRST QUARTER REPRESENTS 25% OF THE YEAR.
I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT THE NUMBERS PRESENTED ARE UNAUDITED AND WILL CHANGE WITH STAFF'S CONTINUOUS REVIEW AND THEN THE AUDIT PROCESS AT YEAR END.
STARTING OFF WITH GENERAL FUND REVENUE, GENERAL FUND REVENUE IS CURRENTLY AT 13.8%.
THE LARGEST PORTION OF GENERAL FUND REVENUE COMES FROM PROPERTY TAX LEVY.
CURRENTLY, THE TAX COLLECTION IS AT 0%.
WE ARE ANTICIPATED TO RECEIVE THE FIRST HALF OF 2025 TAX SETTLEMENT IN JUNE THEN, WE'LL BE AT 50% AT THAT POINT OF TIME.
THE SECOND LARGEST SOURCE OF REVENUE WOULD BE CHARGES FOR SERVICE, AND THAT LINE ITEM IS AT 38.7%.
WE ARE AT 38.7% DUE TO BILLING OUT BOUND FOR THE FIRST HALF OF 2025 POLICE SERVICE CONTRACT.
THAT'S WHY THAT LINE ITEM IS OVER THE 25% EARMARK FOR THE YEAR.
NEXT, OFFICE, THE LICENSE, AND PERMIT.
THAT'S AT 13.7% DUE TO WINTER TIMING, AND WE'RE NOT AT THE 25% EARMARK YET.
HOWEVER, ACTIVITIES ARE STARTING TO PICK UP NOW THAT THE WEATHER IS GETTING WARMER, AND THEN OTHER GOVERNMENTAL SERVICES IS AT 12.9%.
THAT'S HIGHER THAN TYPICAL FOR THIS TIME OF THE YEAR DUE TO VAST REIMBURSEMENTS AND THE TRAFFIC SAFETY VEHICLE GRANT THAT WE RECEIVED ALREADY.
THE LARGEST SOURCE OF REVENUE FOR THAT LINE ITEM IS THE POLICE STATE 8, WHICH NORMALLY COMES IN AROUND FALL TIME.
WE'LL SEE THAT LINE ITEM BEING LESS THAN EARMARKED FOR EACH QUARTER OF THE YEAR UNTIL FALL.
THEN ANOTHER LINE ITEM THAT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT IS INTEREST.
FINANCE DOESN'T RECORD INTEREST EARNINGS UNTIL YEAR END WITH THE AUDIT PROCESS.
YOU'LL SEE THAT IN 2024, WE HAVE ALLOCATED INTEREST, AND THAT LINE ITEM DID COME IN A BIT LOWER THAN OUR 2024 BUDGET BUT HOPEFULLY, FOR 2025, WE DO HIT BUDGET BY YEAR END FOR THAT LINE ITEM.
NEXT SLIDE IS A COMPARISON OF QUARTER TO QUARTER AND YEAR TO YEAR.
YOU'LL SEE THAT QUARTER 1 WE ARE TRENDING AT USUAL, AND THEN WE ARE ANTICIPATING THAT BY YEAR END, WE'LL BE MEETING OR EXCEEDING BUDGETED REVENUE.
UP NEXT, I HAVE GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURE.
GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURES ARE AT 23.5%.
THERE ARE TWO DEPARTMENTS TRENDING OVER THAT 25% EARMARK FOR THE YEAR.
FIRST ONE IS MAYOR AND COUNCIL, THAT'S DUE TO DUES AND MEMBERSHIPS BEING PAID WITHIN THE FIRST COUPLE OF MONTHS OF THE YEAR.
THAT'S TYPICAL WITH PREVIOUS YEARS TREND AND THEN POLICE IS TRENDING SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN THAT 25 EARMARK BY 0.5%.
THAT'S DUE TO SQUATS BEING PURCHASED WITHIN THESE FIRST FEW MONTHS.
WE'LL SEE THAT LINE ITEM LEVEL OUT AS THE YEAR GOES BY AND PERCENTAGE OF THE YEAR GOES BY AS WELL.
[03:05:02]
ALL OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE TRENDING AT OR BELOW THE 25% BUDGET MARK.IT'S ANTICIPATED THAT GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURES WILL BE BELOW BUDGET AT THIS TIME.
THEN NEXT UP IN THIS SLIDE, I HAVE NEW INVESTMENTS.
I'LL TRY AND LOCK IN SOME OF THE RATES WHILE I CAN AND ALSO TRYING TO DIVERSIFY THE MATURITY DATES OF OUR INVESTMENT OF THE CITY'S INVESTMENT.
THERE ARE POTENTIALLY TWO OR THREE MORE RATE CUTS THIS YEAR PREDICTED FROM THE FED, SO THERE'S A LOT INFLUX AT THE MOMENT AND THEN ON THE NEXT SLIDE, I HAVE THE INTEREST EARNINGS OF HOW MUCH THE CITY'S EARNED SO FAR FOR THIS YEAR, AND THIS WILL BE ALLOCATED AT YEAR END WITH THE AUDIT PROCESS.
EVEN THOUGH THE GENERAL FUND HAS A BUDGET OF 100,000 AND WE'RE AT 156, THIS WILL BE ALLOCATED BETWEEN THE FUNDS RESPECTIVELY OF WHAT THEIR FUND BALANCE ARE ON A QUARTER-TO-QUARTER BASIS.
THEN ON THIS LAST SLIDE, I HAVE INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO OVERVIEW.
OUR AVERAGE MATURITY DURATION FOR OUR INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO IS 2.31/% AND THEN CURRENT YIELD OF THE OVERALL INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO IS 3.43%.
WE'LL SEE THE YIELD START GOING UP AS SOME OF THE 2021 AND 2022 PURCHASE DATES FALL OFF BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, IT WAS LOWER INTEREST THAT WE HAD LOCKED INTO AND THEN JUST SOME GRAPHICS SHOWING THE MATURITY PERCENTAGE OF THE INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO BREAKOUT AND THEN WHERE THE CITY'S MONEY IS CURRENTLY SITTING AT.
WITH THAT, I END MY FIRST QUARTER FINANCIAL UPDATE.
>> ALISA, YOU WANTED TO ADD A PUBLIC FORUM.
[Additional Item]
>> I DID. THIS I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S COME UP A NUMBER OF TIMES, WHICH IS WHEN AND HOW TO, OR I SHOULD SAY, WHEN TO NOTICE A POTENTIAL QUORUM COUNCIL OR ANY OF OUR COMMISSIONS.
I KNOW THAT WE'RE GUIDED BY STATE STATUTE.
I THINK WHAT I'VE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT CITIES DO THIS QUITE DIFFERENTLY, AND THERE ARE NUANCES TO THIS ISSUE.
WITH A COUPLE OF EVENTS UPCOMING THIS WEEK, BOTH THE CANDIDATE FORUM AND ALSO A TOUR OF THE PUBLIC WORKS FACILITY.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT I JUST WANTED TO GET EVERYBODY'S THOUGHTS ON BECAUSE I THINK IN THE INTEREST OF WANTING TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST DOING THE MINIMUM, BUT ALSO TRYING TO COMMUNICATE AND REALLY RAISE THE BAR IN TERMS OF OUR ENGAGEMENT WITH OUR PUBLIC AND NOTIFICATION ABOUT THESE THINGS IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT'S AN OPEN QUESTION, AND EVERY CITY DOES IT DIFFERENTLY SO I JUST WANTED TO UNDERSTAND OUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHY WE'RE DOING THIS THE WAY WE ARE AND IF THERE'S ANY REASON TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY AROUND QUORUM NOTIFICATION.
>> RIGHT NOW, WE DO NOT LIST THESE AS POTENTIAL PUBLIC FORUMS.
>> WE DO ON A LOT. WE WON'T, HAVE TO NOTICE ANY PUBLIC MEETINGS.
WE HAVE IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, IF WE KNOW ABOUT IT, WE'VE PUT THAT A QUORUM MAY BE PRESENT.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN BE A PROBLEM, AND MAYBE THE ATTORNEY CAN WEIGH IN AND HELP ME, BUT IS THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE WE PUT ON THE BOTTOM OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT EVENT, THAT A QUORUM MAY BE PRESENT, OF NOT TO GIVE THE COUNCIL LICENSE TO CONDUCT BUSINESS AND VIOLATE THE OPEN MEETING LAW.
>> THE NOTICE REQUIREMENT IS FOR US TO NOTICE THE PUBLIC WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO MEET TO CONDUCT BUSINESS, DISCUSS BUSINESS, OR OBTAIN INFORMATION ON CITY BUSINESS.
I BELIEVE IS HOW THE STATUTE GOES.
WHEN WE DO THINGS LIKE JOINT TRAINING EVENTS, WE WILL NOTICE THAT, OF COURSE.
WHEN WE HAVE THAT SPECIAL MEETING, WE WILL NOTICE THAT.
IF WE HAPPEN TO KNOW THAT THIS EVENT LIKE A TOUR OR SOMETHING ELSE, MAY BE MORE THAN TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS MIGHT SHOW UP WE PUT THAT AT THE BOTTOM, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE PUTTING THE DISCLAIMER DOES NOT ALLOW VIOLATIONS OF OPEN MEETING TO OCCUR.
>> THE OPEN MEETING LAW IS PRETTY BINARY ON THIS.
[03:10:01]
IF IT'S GOING TO BE A MEETING LIKE TONIGHT, EVEN IF IT'S MEANT TO BE MORE INFORMAL, LIKE A STUDY SESSION, THE SAME RULE APPLIES. YOU'D HAVE TO NOTICE IT.YOU HAVE TO BE IN A PLACE THAT'S RELATIVELY SPEAKING OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE MINUTES, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
I THINK I'VE SEEN COUNCIL MEMBER BENSON WITH SOME QUESTIONS SEEKING GUIDANCE ON, HEY, IF WE KNOW A QUORUM MAY SHOW UP FOR, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS ONE OF THEM, BUT THE EXAMPLE I'D USE IS A RIBBON CUTTING, FOR EXAMPLE.
SOMETIMES, COUNCIL MEMBERS GET INVITED TO BE THERE ON BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY.
I KNOW COMMUNITIES ADOPT A POLICY THAT WHEN THE COUNCIL'S BEEN INVITED, WE JUST PUT OUT THERE THAT THERE MAY BE A QUORUM OF THE COUNCIL, BUT THE OPEN MEETING LAW STILL APPLIES IN TERMS OF NO CONDUCTING A BUSINESS, NO SPEAKING, NO THINGS.
SOME PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN TRIPPED UP ON THE HEY, WE'VE NOTICED IT.
THE IDEA IS, NO, THIS IS MERELY TO PUT THE PUBLIC ON NOTICE YOU MAY SEE A QUORUM THERE, BUT WE'RE STILL NOT GOING TO CONDUCT ANY BUSINESS AND DO ANYTHING.
IT'S MORE OF JUST A COMMUNITY CELEBRATION OR SOMETHING TO PROMOTE THE COMMUNITY.
I THINK IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR STRONGER GUIDANCE IN TERMS OF A HIDDEN MISSED POLICY WHEN WE KNOW, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TAKE.
>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M GOING FOR BECAUSE I KNOW IT HAPPENED WHEN I WAS RECENTLY WHERE WE HAD AN OPEN HOUSE FOR THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ISSUES HERE, THE STORMWATER POND.
>> MENA CREEK'S OPEN HOUSE ON THEIR STORM POND.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S BEEN ONE OF THOSE, AND THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE I WAS PRESENT, AND THEN I CAME AFTER COUNCIL MEMBER RICK, AND THEN SOMEBODY IN THE PUBLIC, OR IT WAS ONE OF THE FOLKS PRESENTING HERE, SAID IF ANOTHER MEMBER OF YOUR COUNCIL COMES, WHO'S GOING TO LEAVE? THIS IS MORE ABOUT THERE'S NO INTENTION TO CONDUCT CITY BUSINESS, WHETHER IT'S AT THIS OR AT A RIBBON CUTTING.
IT'S MORE ABOUT THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION AND TRYING TO GET OUT IN FRONT OF THAT SO THAT WHEN OR IF A QUORUM OR PEOPLE COME TO AN EVENT OR HAPPEN TO SHOW UP AT A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OR WHATEVER ELSE THAT WE HAVE SOME TYPE OF UNDERSTANDING ABOUT HOW WE'RE NOTICING THOSE AHEAD OF TIME.
THAT'S THE ISSUE. IT'S NOT THE IDEA OF CONDUCTING BUSINESS OR HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S MORE THE IDEA BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S BEEN HIT AND MISS.
WHEN I'VE BEEN HERE, I HAVE NOTED OR I'VE ASKED FOLKS WHO NO LONGER WORK HERE BEFORE, CAN YOU NOTICE THIS, AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, WE WON'T BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT CONDUCTING BUSINESS HERE, AND I'M THINKING, BUT I KNOW THERE MIGHT BE THREE PEOPLE.
THIS IS ABOUT THE IDEA OF NOT SHOWING UP SOMEWHERE AND HAVING THOSE QUESTIONS PERSIST.
NOT THAT I INTEND OR OTHERS WOULD INTEND TO CONDUCT BUSINESS.
I THINK I AM LOOKING FOR COUNCIL TO POTENTIALLY GIVE MORE THOUGHT OR GUIDANCE TO STAFF AROUND THIS TONIGHT.
>> ALSO, UNLESS YOU ALL CREATE SUCH A POLICY, I KNOW PEOPLE JOKE ABOUT IT A LOT, BUT THERE'S NOT SOMETHING THAT SAYS THREE OF YOU SHOW UP AT SOME SOCIAL EVENT OR SOME OUTSIDE GROUPS EVENT THAT ONE OF YOU HAS TO LEAVE.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE COULD BE A PERCEPTION PROBLEM IF THREE OF YOU ARE GATHERED IN THE CORNER CHATTING AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
THAT PERCEPTION PROBLEM CAN ALSO HAPPEN EVEN IF WE PUT THE DISCLAIMER THAT SAYS THREE OF YOU ARE GOING TO BE THERE.
A LOT OF THE PERCEPTION STUFF REALLY SITS IN YOUR HANDS AND HOW YOU CONDUCT YOURSELF WHEN YOU ARE IN PUBLIC NOW THAT YOU ARE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
>> AS I MENTIONED, I THINK I EMAILED ABOUT THIS.
I KNOW I'VE TALKED TO OTHER CITIES WHO HAVE VERBIAGE ON ALL OF THEIR COMMISSION MEETING AGENDAS, WHETHER IT'S PARKS OR PLANNING, A QUORUM OF COUNCIL MAY BE AT THIS MEETING, A PREEMPTIVE, AND I DON'T KNOW OUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.
>> I THINK THAT CAN BE TRICKY FROM THIS STANDPOINT IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS SUBJECT TO THE OPEN MEETING AND THE NOTICE IS GIVEN AND THAT IF, IN FACT, THREE COUNCIL MEMBERS SHOW UP AND START TALKING ABOUT ACTIVELY AN ITEM BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION WELL, THEN IT'S A DUAL.
IT'S NOT ONLY A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, BUT IT'S THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
I HAVE IN THOSE SITUATIONS, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN WITH PLANNING ITEMS, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN THAT DRAW INTEREST, AND FOLKS WANT TO WATCH THE TAPE; THEY WANT TO BE THERE TO OBSERVE IT.
I THINK A NOTICE LIKE THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE JUST SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, YEAH, THERE IS GOING TO BE POTENTIALLY A QUORUM THERE.
BUT THEN THERE BECOMES THE DISCIPLINE OF NOT PARTICIPATING, NOT TALKING TO YOUR FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS, BECAUSE THAT'S CLEARLY A CITY BUSINESS ITEM, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
I HAVE TALKED ABOUT IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THAT AND YOU REGULARLY HAVE QUORUM SHOWING UP, IT DOES TO ADAM'S POINT, TAKE THE DISCIPLINE OF NOT TALKING WITH EACH OTHER AND TO THAT IT MAY LIMIT YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THAT MEETING TOO.
IT REALLY BECOMES MORE OF AN OBSERVATORY ROLE.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF ONE SUGGESTION MAY JUST BE THE COMMISSIONS ASIDE.
[03:15:05]
IF WE KNOW OF EVENTS, IF ANY COUNCIL MEMBER, WE ARE AWARE OF AN EVENT LIKE THESE COMING UP THIS WEEK, THE TWO THAT I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR AND I'VE DONE THIS IN THE PAST, TO SIMPLY OR ANYBODY TO NOTIFY STAFF AND SAY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY HAS INTEREST, WHETHER THERE'S A CANDIDATE FOR FORUM OR A TOUR OF ONE OF OUR FACILITIES CAN STAFF PUT THIS OUT.IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE A POLICY.
IT'S SIMPLY A, I KNOW THIS IS GOING TO BE GENERATING INTEREST, AND IN THAT IDEA OF HAVING THE DISCIPLINE WHEN WE'RE THERE TO NOT BE DISCUSSING BUT ALSO JUST TO NOTICE THIS FOR THAT PUBLIC PERCEPTION PIECE. IT'S JUST AN IDEA.
>> I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OUR CITY CLERK, CHRISTINE, HAS BEEN DOING IS JUST PUTTING THAT AT THE BOTTOM OF OUR PUBLIC NOTICES.
FOR INSTANCE, I JUST PULLED UP ON THE WEBSITE JOIN US FOR A FACILITIES TOUR OF THE OR PUBLIC WORKS BUILDING AT THE BOTTOM, OR NOTICE, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL MAY BE PRESENT AT THIS EVENT AND WILL NOT BE CONDUCTING OFFICIAL BUSINESS.
>> THAT'S GREAT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS THERE. THANK YOU.
>> WHAT SHE'S BEEN TRYING TO DO IS INCORPORATED INTO THE ACTUAL NOTICES FOR EVENTS.
PARTICULARLY NOW THAT WE HAVE COMMUNICATION STAFF TO HELP US WITH THESE THINGS, RATHER THAN, WE'VE HAD SOME PREVIOUS CLERKS WHOSE PRACTICE WAS TO JUST SEND OUT A SERVE EMAIL THAT HAD A POSSIBLE NOTICE.
SHE'S TRYING TO INCORPORATE IT IN THE EVENT NOTICES.
WE MAY MISS ONE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU CAN'T GO TO THE EVENT.
>> WE ARE THREE HOURS AND 20 MINUTES IN.
I'D RECOMMEND THAT WE TAKE A FIVE-MINUTE BREAK.
WE HAVE A FEW MORE ITEMS COMING UP.
IF THERE'S NO OBJECTION, WE'LL TAKE A BREAK FOR FIVE MINUTES.
>> WAS THERE GOING TO BE ANY FORMAL GUIDANCE FROM THE COUNCIL ON THIS LAST DISCUSSION ISSUE?
>> IS THAT ENOUGH FORMAL GUIDANCE?
>> I AM. WE HAVEN'T COMMUNICATED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, AND IT JUST COMES UP IN BITS AND PIECES SO THIS IS ALL THAT I WAS INTENDING. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU. WE ARE NOW ON TO THE ATTORNEY REPORT.
[Attorney Report]
>> THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR. I JUST HAVE A BRIEF REPORT IN TERMS OF IT'S MORE OF A REMINDER, IF YOU WILL, AND I KNOW WE HAVE CLOSED SESSIONS, SO I'LL LEAVE YOU OTHER COMMENTS ON, BUT THAT IS TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT THERE IS A SUPREME COURT ARGUMENT ON MAY 6 AT 9 O'CLOCK AT THE SUPREME COURT REGARDING OUR SPECIAL ELECTION.
>> NINE O'CLOCK AT THE SUPREME COURT IN ST. PAUL.
ALL BRIEFS HAVE BEEN FILED AT THIS POINT, IF COUNSEL'S INTERESTED IN SEEING ANY OF THE BRIEFING.
I THINK THEY'VE BEEN FORWARDED ONTO ADAM.
WE WILL WAIT FOR THAT, AND WE ASSUME THE SUPREME COURT WILL ISSUE AN ORDER, WE HOPE SHORTLY, GIVEN THE TIMING OF EVERYTHING, BUT, OF COURSE, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME TIME CONSTRAINTS AT ANYONE ELSE SO WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF THE DATE AND TIME OF THE ARGUMENT.
THAT, I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, AND WE'LL HOLD ANY OTHER COMMENTS DURING OUR CLOSED SESSIONS.
>> ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO CITY ADMINISTRATOR ENGINEER REPORT ITEM 16.
[16. Upcoming Work Session and Council Training Schedule]
>> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, ITEM 16 IS JUST THE SCHEDULE FOR UPCOMING WORK SESSIONS AND TRAINING.
THERE ARE REALLY NO CHANGES TO WHAT YOU SAW LAST TIME, UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD ON 28TH APRIL AT OUR WORK SESSION, WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE 2026 PROPOSALS FOR STREET MAINTENANCE AS WELL AS AN UPDATE ON THE AVERAGE LAKE STORE SETBACKS.
>> NO ACTION REQUIRED ON THAT.
[17. Design Update Public Works Commodities Yard (24-035)]
PUBLIC WORKS COMMODITIES YARD.>> MR. MAYOR, MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, THIS ITEM IS A DESIGN UPDATE ON THE NEW PUBLIC WORKS FACILITY, SALT SHED AND COMMODITIES AREA.
WHEN COUNCIL APPROVED THE DESIGN PROPOSALS, THEY ASKED FOR STAFF TO COME BACK AND PROVIDE AN UPDATE BEFORE WE WENT OUT TO SOLICIT BIDS AND SO I'M HERE TO DO THAT NOW.
THE FIRST SLIDE YOU HAVE HERE IS JUST A CUT AND PASTE FROM OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN SLIDE FROM LAST FALL, WHEN WE'RE FIRST PROPOSING THIS, GIVES A COUPLE OF GOOD VISUALS OF WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT.
[03:20:04]
IN THIS CASE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITION OF THE COMMODITIES AREA, WHICH IS NOTED IN THIS ASPHALTED AREA WITH BINS TO STORE BULK COMMODITIES AND A HOOP HOUSE TO COVER WHERE WE WOULD STORE THE SALT.CURRENTLY, IF YOU WERE TO GO OUT TO THE FACILITY, THE PAVING STOPS ALONG THIS LINE HERE WHERE THE OUTSIDE OF THE OF THE BINS WOULD START, SO THIS PROJECT WOULD SEE THE COMPLETION OF THIS SECTION.
THE ORIGINAL ESTIMATE FOR AMOUNT WAS 1.3 MILLION DOLLAR THAT WAS DETERMINED AS PART OF THE ORIGINAL DESIGN FOR THE ENTIRE SITE.
THAT 1.3 MILLION WAS BACKED OUT AT THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION FOR TO DO AT A LATER TIME.
AS FAR AS THE DESIGN UPDATE, THIS IS VERY, ACTUALLY A VERY SIMPLE PROJECT AS FAR AS THE WAY IT'S LAID OUT.
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS AN OVERALL SITE LAND FOR STRUCTURES ON THE FACILITY.
THE EDGES THERE ARE MATERIAL BINS.
THE PROJECT WOULD PUT THE EXTERIOR PART OF THE MATERIAL BINS IN.
IT WOULD LEAVE ANY INTERIOR DIVIDERS OUT.
WE ALREADY HAVE MATERIALS TO DO INTERIOR DIVIDING SO THOSE WOULD JUST BE REPURPOSED.
THEN IT ADDS A COVERED SALT SHED IN THE FORM OF A HOOP HOUSE IN THE BACK.
ONE THING THAT WE DID AS WE WORKED ON THE DESIGN FOR THIS WAS LOOKING AT A COUPLE OF THINGS.
ONE WAS WAYS THAT WE COULD REDUCE THE COST.
THE ORIGINAL DESIGN AND PLAN CALLED FOR PRECAST IN PLACE CONCRETE, AND INSTEAD, WHAT WE'VE LOOKED AT IN THIS DESIGN IS TO CHANGE THAT OUT WITH PRE CAST CONCRETE, SO LARGE, WHAT WE CALL T-WALLS.
IF YOU THINK OF A JERSEY BARRIER LIKE YOU MIGHT SEE DOWN THE CENTER OF A HIGHWAY THAT SHORT EXCEPT TALLER, BUT THE SAME SHAPE THAT THOSE ARE MADE OF.
WHAT THAT DOES IS ONE DRIVES THE COST DOWN AND ALSO ALLOWS US SOME FLEXIBILITY IN THE FUTURE IF SOME THINGS NEEDED TO CHANGE.
THIS IS JUST SOME EXCERPTS OUT OF THE PLAN SETS, TO SHOW YOU THE HOOP HOUSE CONSTRUCTION STANDARD KIT TYPE HOOP HOUSE THAT YOU MAY SEE IN OTHER PLACES AN EXAMPLE OF ONE NEARBY IS THE WSETA PUBLIC WORKS FACILITY HAS ONE, AS DOES THE PUBLIC WORKS FACILITY THAT YOU CAN SEE FROM THE ROAD.
THAT'S THE THING WE'RE LOOKING AT DOING HERE.
THE HOOP HOUSE PROVIDES THE SHELTER, AND THEN INSIDE OF THE HOOP HOUSE AS DEPICTED HERE, YOU HAVE SOME MORE OF THOSE T-WALLS IS WHAT ACTUALLY HOLDS THE SALT IN.
ONE OTHER ASPECT OF THE DESIGN DETAIL, JUST AS PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK IS, HOW DO WE KEEP THE SALT FROM GETTING OUT? YOU BUILD THE AREA WITH A SLIGHT DEPRESSION COMPARED TO THE SURROUNDING AREA WHERE THE SALT IS STORED, AND THAT'S WHAT'S REPRESENTED HERE IN THIS OVERVIEW.
ALTHOUGH THE ACTUAL HOOP HOUSE IS LARGER, AS FAR AS THE COVERED AREA, THERE IS A NEED TO HAVE COVERED LOADING AND UNLOADING AREA AND SO THE USABLE STORAGE SPACE IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE IS 64 BY 60, WHICH IS SUFFICIENT TO HOLD OUR MAXIMUM CAPACITY OF SALT THAT WE WOULD PROJECT, WHICH IS 1,000 TON.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO AT THIS POINT IN THE DESIGN PROCESS IS WE ASK OUR CONSULTANTS TO GIVE US UPDATED ESTIMATE NUMBERS, AND WE USE A VERY BROAD PLANNING NUMBER WHEN WE'RE PUTTING TOGETHER THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN, AND AS WE GO THROUGH DESIGN, WE TRY TO REFINE THOSE.
I HAVE IN THIS UPPER CORNER HERE, THIS IS THE ESTIMATE WE HAVE FOR CONSTRUCTION.
BROKEN DOWN INTO THE MAJOR COMPONENTS, SITE WORK.
THAT'S ALL BASICALLY ALL THE GRADING AND THEN THE ASPHALT THAT GOES IN FOR THE AREA.
THE SALT SHELTER IS SELF EXPLANATORY THE PIECE THAT HOLDS THE SHALT.
THEN THE STORAGE BINS THAT IS FOR THOSE T-WALLS THAT PROVIDE THOSE ENCLOSURES ON THE TWO SIDES.
WE SUBTOTAL THAT ALL UP TO $947,000 BECAUSE WE'RE STILL IN AN ESTIMATE MODE, WE ADD A CONTINGENCY AMOUNT IN THERE IN CASE SOMETHING COMES OFF.
WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH ANY IMPACTS FROM TARIFFS AND OTHER THINGS.
WE ADD A LITTLE BUFFER IN THERE.
IN THIS CASE, WE PUT IN $80,000 THAT BUFFER.
FOR A TOTAL CONSTRUCTION COST OF JUST RIGHT ABOVE ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
I THEN ADDED THAT INTO SOME OF THE OTHER COSTS THAT WE HAVE IN THERE FOR THE SOFT COSTS DESIGN TESTING, AND THEN CONSTRUCTION OVERSIGHT ESTIMATES, AND YOU WOULD COME TO 1.43 MILLION.
[03:25:01]
THEN, AS FAR AS WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS IN OUR NORMAL PROCESS.ONCE WE GET DONE WITH REVIEW OF WHERE WE ARE AT NOW, WHICH IS AN 80% DESIGN, WE MOVE TO 100% DESIGN, WHICH FINAL DESIGN AS THAT MAY BE OBVIOUS TO STATE AND HAVE OUR CONSULTANTS BEGIN TO PREPARE THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS.
THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, IS THE SPEC BOOK THAT HAS ALL THE SPECIFICATIONS THAT GO WITH THE DESIGN.
THIS IS WHAT'S PUT OUT FOR BID.
WE WOULD PUT IT OUT FOR BID, HAVE SOME DATES IN THERE WHEN WE WOULD DO THAT OUT FOR BID, NO LATER THAN 2ND JUNE.
BID OPENING ON 13TH JUNE, WHICH WOULD ALLOW US TO BRING SOMETHING BACK TO THE COUNCIL IF YOU'RE ON ON AT THE MEETING ON 23RD JUNE.
ASSUMING ALL THOSE THINGS HAPPENED, WE WOULD LOOK AT A CONSTRUCTION WINDOW FROM MID JULY TO THE END OF OCTOBER, WHICH IS WHEN THE CONSTRUCTION SEASON, PARTICULARLY WITH ANYTHING ASPHALT STARTS TO WIND UP.
SUBJECT, JACK, YOUR QUESTIONS.
HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN THIS FACILITY OVER HERE.
>> IT'S ABOUT DOUBLE THE OVERALL SPACE OUTSIDE IN THE CURRENT CONFIGURATION.
THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE WITH THE CURRENT SITE IS THE WAY THAT IT'S CONFIGURED DUE TO THE TOPOGRAPHY THAT'S AROUND IT.
WE'RE SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF WETLANDS WHICH MAKES THE SHAPE OF THE WAY WE'VE GOT THIS THING OVER THERE.
THEY'VE SHOEHORNED IT IN WHERE THEY COULD OVER THE YEARS, BUT IT'S NOT OPTIMAL, WHEREAS IN THIS CONFIGURATION, WE HAVE A SQUARE OPEN SPACE TO USE, WHICH IS PRETTY SIMPLE AND ACTUALLY OPTIMAL FOR WHAT YOU'D WANT TO DO, GIVING US PLENTY OF STORAGE SPACE, AND THEN PLENTY OF SPACE FOR MATERIAL HANDLING IN THE MIDDLE.
I KNOW THAT WE HAD A COUPLE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS OUT TO VISIT THE SITE, ACTUALLY.
I ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO BE ON A DAY WHEN THE PUBLIC WORKS GUYS WERE OUT ON A WATER MAIN BREAK DIG AND GOT TO OBSERVE, THAT WHEN WE'RE DOING A WATER MAIN DIG REPLACEMENT, WE'RE TAKING A WHOLE BUNCH OF VERY WET SOIL, BRINGING IT TO THE PUBLIC WORKS SITE, DUMPING IT UNTIL IT CAN DRY OUT, AND THEN IN THE MEANTIME, TAKING MATERIAL THAT WE HAVE THAT'S ALREADY DRY DOWN TO REPLACE THAT SOIL.
THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE A LARGER AREA IN THE MIDDLE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO DO THOSE ACTIVITIES.
>> QUESTIONS, PARTICULARLY, PEOPLE THAT DID SOME ANALYSIS OF WHAT OTHER FOLKS HAVE.
>> I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, BUT I HAVE THOUGHTS.
>> NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
THAT'S ABOUT WHAT WE LEARNED AS WELL.
I MEAN, WE'RE JUST KIND OF WAITING TO SEE, I GUESS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN? I'M NOT IN ANY BIG HURRY TO BUILD THIS, I GUESS.
IN OUR CITY RIGHT NOW, I'D RATHER, WE TOOK A PAUSE ON THIS.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THE MONEY THAT WE DID APPROVE AND SPEND IS WE'RE NOT GOING TO LOSE ANY OF IT.
WE CAN USE ALL THE DATA THAT THEY'VE ACQUIRED FOR US, AND I JUST THINK IT'S TIME FOR US TO JUST TAKE A BREAK FROM SPENDING AND JUST ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE UNCERTAINTY, LIKE ADAM SAID WITH TARIFFS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
>> IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE A BREAK, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS, LET'S GET TO AWARD, SEE WHAT PRICES WE'RE GETTING.
WE DID GET ON OUR FIRST ROAD BID OF THE YEAR FOR THE BROWN ROAD.
WE GOT SOME REALLY EXCELLENT ASPHALT PRICES SO THERE IS SOME COST IN HAVING THE CONSULTANTS FINISH THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, BUT AS YOU MENTIONED, THOSE CAN BE USED.
YOU KNOW, IF FOR SOME REASON, WE GO TO A WARD AND WE GET A HIGH NUMBER OR JUST MAYBE EVEN WHAT WE'RE PROJECTING, AND WE DON'T WANT TO SPEND THAT MONEY.
WE CAN TAKE THOSE PLANS AND PUT THEM ON THE SHELF AND WAIT, WHICH IS, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID BEFORE, BUT IF FOR SOME REASON WE GET SOME FANTASTIC PRICING, THEN WE COULD MAKE A DECISION THE OTHER WAY.
>> HOW MUCH MORE IS GETTING CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS COMPLETE? I KNOW YOU HAD IT ON A PRIOR SCREEN, WHAT WAS THE COST OF THAT?
>> GETTING TO CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, WE'LL BE SOMEWHERE AROUND PROBABLY AROUND $40,000.
THERE WILL BE A LITTLE BIT LEFT FOR EACH OF THE DESIGN PORTIONS,
[03:30:03]
AT THE END, SO LOOKING AT THOSE NUMBERS.THAT'S ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD DO.
>> I'LL SHARE MY THOUGHTS BECAUSE I SHARED THESE IN THE MEETING THAT WE HAD WITH THE ARCHITECT AND ALSO THE ENGINEER THAT COUNCIL MEMBER RICKS AND I ATTENDED.
WE HAVE MADE MULTIPLE SITE VISITS TO OTHER CITIES, AND WE'VE SPOKEN WITH THEIR STAFF, AND WE'VE ASKED THIS, WE ASKED THIS IN THE CONSTRUCTION MEETING, IS THIS A PROJECT THAT REQUIRES COMPLETION THIS YEAR? THE ANSWER IS NO. THE BIGGEST ISSUE HERE IS SALT STORAGE BECAUSE WHEN IT GETS WET, IT'S NOT A GOOD THING.
THAT SAID WE'VE OPERATED OUT OF THE CURRENT SITE FOR MANY YEARS, AND THERE IS A SYSTEM THERE FOR STORING IT AND ALSO HAVING OVERAGE PUT IN OTHER AREAS.
I DON'T SEE A GREAT SENSE OF URGENCY, AND THE OTHER FACTOR THERE IS THAT YOU MENTIONED CHANGES IN REAL TIME ABOUT TARIFFS AND OTHER THINGS.
THE COMPONENT, WHICH I ALSO MENTIONED, OUR CONSTRUCTION MEETING, AND THE ARCHITECT IS AWARE AS WELL THAT WE'VE HAD A CHANGEOVER IN COUNCIL.
WE HAVE QUITE A FEW ISSUES GOING ON RIGHT NOW OF PRESSING CONCERN IN THE CITY.
WE HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE CHOICES THAT ARE MAY BE MADE IN THE NEAR TERM REGARDING THE FIRE INFRASTRUCTURE, BUILDINGS, AND OTHER THINGS AND WE ALSO HAVE THE COMPONENT OF THE PUBLIC TAX DOLLARS, WHICH HAS BEEN SCRUTINIZED HEAVILY RECENTLY AND IN THE PAST, AND MANY REQUESTS FOR A MORE THOROUGH OR TRANSPARENT PROCESS AROUND SPENDING.
ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE TOUR IS HAPPENING IS COUNCIL MEMBER RICK'S SUGGESTION DURING THE CONSTRUCTION MEETING THAT THE PUBLIC WHO IS FUNDING THESE INITIATIVES IS ENCOURAGED AND PERMITTED TO TAKE A TOUR OF THE BUILDING, SEE THE SITE, ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
THERE'S A REAL, A DESIRE ON THE PART OF AT LEAST MYSELF AND COUNCIL MEMBER RICK TO ENSURE THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS THAT THE COUNCIL IS DELIBERATING HEAVILY ABOUT THESE EXPENDITURES, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THERE NECESSARILY HAS TO BE A REQUIREMENT TO ACT ON THIS HERE.
I DON'T SEE THE SENSE OF URGENCY, AND I ALSO THINK IT'S A CONSIDERATION THAT COUNCIL IS HEARING FROM THE PUBLIC THAT ALL THESE DOLLARS, EVEN IF IT'S ANOTHER 40,000, IS MORE MONEY SPENT THIS YEAR TOWARDS A PROJECT THAT WE MAY OR MAY NOT COMPLETE.
THE DATA WILL BE USABLE IN THE FUTURE, AND I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REALLY CONSIDER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED BY THE PUBLIC HERE.
AGAIN, IN TALKING TO MANY PUBLIC WORK STAFF AND OUR OWN STAFF, THERE IS NOT AN URGENT AND IMMEDIATE NEED FOR THIS PROJECT TO BE COMPLETED THIS YEAR. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.
>> WELL, WHAT DO WE HAVE BEFORE US HERE? LET'S SEE AGAIN.
>> I DON'T HAVE A MOTION BEFORE.
>> YOU DON'T. I DIDN'T THINK SO.
>> WE JUST IS AN UPDATE. IF YOU'D LIKE US TO STOP AND STOP WHAT WE'RE DOING, THEN YOU JUST NEED A MOTION DIRECTING STAFF TO CEASE WORK ON THIS DESIGN.
>> I GUESS I WOULD MAKE A MOTION FOR STAFF TO CEASE WORK ON THIS DESIGN RIGHT NOW.
>> WELL, IF THERE'S A SECOND WE CAN DISCUSS.
>> THANK YOU. ADAM, AS YOU HAD POINTED OUT THAT IF WE GET THROUGH THIS CONSTRUCTION PHASE, WHICH IS SOME INCREMENT.
I CARE ABOUT ALL OF IT. BUT HOW MUCH OF THE MONEY THAT WE'VE ALREADY SPENT WOULD NEED TO BE RE SPENT OR THROWAWAY OR WHATEVER.
IF WE DON'T GET JUST TO THIS NEXT PHASE OF COMPLETION, WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY PUT SOMETHING ON THE SHELF.
YOU WERE RECOMMENDING THAT IF WE DO PAUSE, WE PAUSE ONCE WE GET TO THAT POINT, NOT RIGHT NOW.
WHAT'S THE PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE OF DOING IT RIGHT NOW VERSUS AT CONSTRUCTION, WHATEVER.
>> I THINK IT'S ON THE NEXT SLIDE.
CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS COMPLETE ON MAY 15TH.
>> THE PRODUCTION OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS IS WHERE WE START TO SPEND A LOT OF CONSULTANT DESIGN TIME.
WHEREAS AND I HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY OF THE INVOICES YET FOR WORK DONE,
[03:35:04]
BUT MY GUESS IS EACH OF THESE HAS PROBABLY SPENT AROUND $10,000 ISH TO GET TO THE POINT WE'RE AT NOW.BUT THEY'LL HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER 20 EACH OR SO TO GET TO FINISH THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND GET THE BID PACKET TOGETHER.
THAT'S WHERE THAT'S WHERE THE DELTA BETWEEN STOPPING NOW AND STOPPING AT AWARD IS THE COST OF PUTTING THE.
>> THAT GEOTECHNICAL EVALUATION THAT'S ALREADY DONE AND PAID.
>> THAT CAN BE USED WHENEVER WE GO.
>> AS LONG AS THE SLIGHT CONDITIONS DON'T CHANGE. I MEAN, THAT'S.
>> THAT AMOUNTED TO SOME BORINGS, LOOKING AT WHAT THE SOIL CONDITIONS ARE AS YOU GO DOWN, THE SALT SHED WAS GOING TO BE.
THAT DATA IS VALID FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
>> IS THERE ANY ADVANTAGE TO SPENDING THAT ADDITIONAL $40,000 NOW VERSUS TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE SHELF.
>> THE MAIN ADVANTAGE IS IF WE GO ALL THE WAY TO BID, AND WE GET SOME REALLY GOOD PRICES.
CONSTRUCTION TENDS TO ONLY GET MORE EXPENSIVE, THE LONGER YOU WAIT.
IF YOU WAIT TWO OR THREE YEARS, THE CONSTRUCTION PRICE INDEX GOES UP 3% PER YEAR, PROBABLY, IF NOT MORE.
THAT'S THE SOME OF THE TRADE OFF YOU HAVE IS.
THINGS GET MORE EXPENSIVE, THE LONGER YOU WAIT.
BUT IF YOU'RE UNCERTAIN ABOUT DOING THIS AT ALL, THEN CERTAINLY YOU SHOULD WAIT.
NO MATTER WHAT THERE'S SOME STUFF YOU HAVE TO REDO, BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT IF TWO YEARS, WHATEVER WE GO OUT AND WE GET SOME CONSULTANTS.
THE FIRST THING YOU'RE GOING TO TELL US IS THEY NEED TO CONFIRM WHATEVER THE PREVIOUS CONSULTANTS DID WAS RIGHT.
YOU PAY FOR A LITTLE BIT OF THAT, BUT THAT'S A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS.
THAT'S NOT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
SOME THINGS HAVE TO BE RESTARTED, SUCH AS OUR WATERSHED PERMITS.
SINCE IF WE STOP NOW, WE WILL NOT COMPLETE OUR WATERSHED PERMIT, SO THAT ALL THE MODELING AND STUFF WE'VE DONE UP TO NOW, WE'D HAVE TO REDO.
>> THAT WE KNEW. THAT WAS SOMETHING.
>> THE WATERSHED PERMITS REALLY VALID FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.
>> IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? TO BE CLEAR, THE MOTION WAS TO NOT MOVE FORWARD AT THIS POINT.
>> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THAT MOTION, SAY AYE.
>> ALL THOSE OPPOSED? NAME SIGN.
>> UNANIMOUS THEN. MOTION CARRIES. THAT'S RIGHT.
[20. Amend 2002 Agreement and Contract for Fire Protection]
20 TO JUST AFTER THE ITEM 17.MR. EDWARDS, YOU'RE LISTED AS THE PRESENTER HERE.
>> ITEM NUMBER 20 IS TO REVIEW A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO 2002 AGREEMENT AND CONTRACT FOR FIRE PROTECTION.
THE BACKGROUND IS, WE'VE HAD A FIRE NEGOTIATING TEAM MADE UP OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBER PERSIAN NEGOTIATING WITH THEIR ELECTED COUNTERPARTS IN THE CITY OF LONG LAKE, AND THEY HAVE DEVELOPED A PROPOSED AMENDMENT THAT IS AT EXHIBIT A, WHICH IS AN AMENDMENT TO THE FIRE SERVICES CONTRACT FROM 2002, WHICH IS AVAILABLE AT EXHIBIT B. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE DRAFT AMENDMENT IS ALSO BEING PRESENTED AT THE CITY COUNCILS OF THE WELL, THE OTHER TWO CONTRACT CITIES, WHICH WOULD BE LONG LAKE AND MEDINA OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR SO.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE NEGOTIATING TEAM WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THEIR DOCUMENT.
I PUT IN THERE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION.
STAFF DOES OVERALL SUPPORT THE AMENDMENT AS PRESENTED, BUT DID OFFER THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS.
WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT THE DESIRE FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS TO WORK TOGETHER TO PROVIDE RESPONSIVE SERVICE.
WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A NEW FIRE DEPARTMENT BY THE CONSOLIDATION OF THE OFD AND LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
PROBABLY MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE DO SUPPORT THE EXPEDIENT DEVELOPMENT OF A LONG TERM PARTNERSHIP FROM STAFF PERSPECTIVE,
[03:40:01]
THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING OUT THERE.I DID PROVIDE A SUMMARY BY THE SECTIONS OF THE FIRE REPORT.
THE ONE THING THAT I WOULD NOTE, ALTHOUGH WE ARE OVERALL IN SUPPORT OF THE AGREEMENT.
THE ONE THING THAT STAFF HAS RESERVATIONS AND CONCERNS ABOUT IS THE TIMING OF THE STAFFING SECTION IN EXHIBIT C, WHICH APPEARS TO LIMIT THAT OFD'S ABILITY TO EMPLOY PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS.
NOW, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THAT IS AN ASPIRATIONAL PORTION OF THE DOCUMENT.
THE EXACT TIMING OF THAT IS NOT LAID OUT IN THE AGREEMENT, BUT IT WOULD BE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION THAT THOSE KINDS OF CHANGES NOT TAKE PLACE UNTIL SUCH TIME AS WE HAVE THE LONG TERM AGREEMENT IN PLACE IN ORDER TO MITIGATE ANY RISK THAT PREMATURELY REMOVING SOME OF THE STAFF THAT SERVES OUR COMMUNITY MIGHT POSE.
WHAT WE HAVE FOR COUNCIL ACTION REQUESTED TODAY IS TO MOVE TO APPROVE OR DENY THE DRAFT FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE AGREEMENT AND CONTRACT FOR FIRE PROTECTION.
THEN THROUGH IN THERE ALSO, IF IT IS TO APPROVE, WE WOULD LOOK TO THE COUNCIL TO ALSO DIRECT STAFF TO IMMEDIATELY BEGIN PREPARING A DRAFT JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT BASED ON THE TERM SHEET OF EXHIBIT D. EXCEPT FOR QUESTIONS, THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
>> I GUESS I WOULD ADDRESS THE CONCERN RAISED IN STAFF'S COMMENTS THAT THIS WOULD I GUESS, IN YOUR WORDS, MAYBE BACK THAT UP A LITTLE BIT.
THERE YOU GO. EARN OUR RESIDENTS AT RISK OF DECREASED LEVELS OF FIRE SERVICE.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS MELDING BOTH SO THAT WE'VE GOT THE PAID ON CALL FOLKS FROM LONG LAKE COVERING THE ENTIRE SERVICE AREA, ACCESS TO STATION 2 AND STATION 1 OR OUR PART TIMERS.
I SEE THAT AS NOT PLACING THE CITY AT A DISADVANTAGE IN FUTURE NEGOTIATIONS, BUT BASICALLY INCREASING THE LEVEL OF SERVICE, INSTEAD OF DECREASING THE LEVELS OF SERVICE.
IT MAY LEAD TO ADDITIONAL EXPENDITURES BECAUSE WE'RE PAYING FOR PART TIMERS, ALTHOUGH RIGHT NOW WE'RE PAYING FOR THE PART TIMERS FOR ACTUALLY A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME, SO IT ACTUALLY MAY LEAD TO DECREASED EXPENDITURES.
BUT ANYWAY, MR. PERSIAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT?
>> NO, I THINK THAT YOU CAN COVER WHAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.
>> WE DID HAVE A CHANCE TO GO THROUGH THIS IN OUR CLOSED SECTION.
ANYWAY, I'D OPEN IT UP FOR COMMENTS BY THE COUNCIL.
>> I'M THINKING ABOUT PUBLIC COMMENTS WHERE MR. VEACH HAD EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT TRAINING ON EQUIPMENT.
HOW DOES THE PROVISION ABOUT PAID ON CALL? HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THAT? IF WE DO WOULD WE HAVE PEOPLE PAID ON CALL, FIREFIGHTERS, CURRENTLY WITH LONG LAKE THAT WOULD NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO UTILIZE ORONO EQUIPMENT? HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THAT? I MEAN, I HEARD PUBLIC INPUT, AND I'M TRYING TO BRING THAT PUBLIC INPUT INTO THE CONVERSATION.
>> WE'VE LEFT IT UP TO THE LEADERSHIP OF THE TWO DEPARTMENTS TO DO THE CROSS TRAINING.
UNTIL THAT TRAINING OCCURS, TECHNICALLY CORRECT, THAT PEOPLE THAT AREN'T TRAINED ON THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS EQUIPMENT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE THAT EQUIPMENT.
>> DO WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT SERVICE LEVELS?
>> IS THERE ANY HARM IN WAITING UNTIL PEOPLE ARE CROSS TRAINED. WHAT'S THE RUSH?
>> WELL, I THINK THE NOTION WAS THAT IT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT CONFUSING TO HAVE PAID ON CALL FROM BOTH DEPARTMENTS GET A CALL.
ARE THEY PUTTING THEIR ORONO HAT ON? ARE THEY PUTTING THEIR LONG LAKE HAT ON? WE'VE GOT SEVEN, AS I UNDERSTAND, FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE SERVING ON BOTH DEPARTMENTS.
[03:45:02]
>> I DON'T THINK THEY CARE WHAT'S ON THE HAT.
>> IT'S POTENTIAL FOR BEING CONFUSING, I DON'T KNOW.
>> I MEAN, MY IMPRESSION IS THAT THE LEADERSHIPS OF THE DEPARTMENTS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO WORK OUT AN APPROACH TO WHETHER IT'S EQUIPMENT POSITIONING OR TRAINING THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND IN A VERY EFFICIENT MANNER AT ANY TIME.
>> I TRUST THAT THEY DO, BUT I DON'T HAVE PROOF OF THAT.
I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS A TRUE STATEMENT THAT YOU JUST MADE.
I WOULD PREFER TO SEE A PLAN THAT SAYS, HERE'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO BE CROSS TRAINING.
HERE'S THE TIMING OF THE TRAINING FOR THE LONG LAKE PAID ON CALL ON THIS PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, AND IT WILL TAKE TWO WEEKS TO HAVE SOMEBODY MASTER THAT AND BE ABLE TO UTILIZE IT.
WE HAVE A CAPACITY TO TRAIN X NUMBER OF PEOPLE PER TIME.
THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT OR HOWEVER MANY DIFFERENT PIECES OF EQUIPMENT PUTTING TOGETHER A TRAINING SCHEDULE THAT DEMONSTRATES THAT THEY CAN DO THAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S UNREASONABLE.
>> WELL, I THINK THE FACTOR THAT MAYBE IS BEING OVERLOOKED HERE IS BOTH DEPARTMENTS HAVE ADEQUATE EQUIPMENT TO GO TO RESPOND TO A CALL.
IF A CALL CAME IN THAT REQUIRED OR THAT WOULD BE HANDLED BY THE ORONO PART TIMERS, THEY CAN USE THE ORONO EQUIPMENT UNTIL AT THE EXCLUSION OF THE LONG LAKE PEOPLE USING THAT EQUIPMENT UNTIL THEY GET THE.
>> BUT I THOUGHT THEY WERE GONE. THE ORONO.
>> WELL, THE ORONO PART TIMERS WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE ORONO EQUIPMENT UNTIL THE LONG LAKE PEOPLE ARE TRAINED ON IT.
PRESUMING THEY STAY ON ON THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WE ALREADY HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN TRAINED IN THE ORONO EQUIPMENT.
BUT REGARDLESS, IF WE HAVE AN INCIDENT THAT REQUIRES BOTH, I'M ENVISIONING THE ORONO PART TIMERS, TAKING THE ORONO EQUIPMENT, THE LONG LAKE PAID ON CALL, TAKING THE LONG LAKE EQUIPMENT, AND GOING TO THE INCIDENT SCENE.
>> I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU.
IT'S NOT QUITE CLICKING WITH ME WITH WHAT BEN SAID AND THEN BEN'S NOT HERE ANYMORE. ANYBODY?
>> DID YOU HEAR BEN'S CONCERN AND CAN ANYBODY REACT TO MY QUESTION?
>> JOHN PASZKIEWICZ, LONG LAKE FIRE.
I THINK A FEW OF THE DIFFERENT PRESENTERS HAVE TOUCHED ON IT A LITTLE BIT THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT THAT I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE CITY COUNCILS.
WE ALL HAVE BEEN BEHIND THE SCENES A LITTLE BIT WITH THAT FORMULA OR OPINIONS ON HOW WE WOULD DO IT IF IT WAS MY CHOICE VERSUS BEN'S CHOICE VERSUS WHOEVER'S CHOICE.
I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE PROCESS WE'D WANT TO TAKE IS WE WOULD WANT THE TRUCK OUT THE DOOR TO BE A CONSISTENT TRUCK.
JUST LIKE TODAY, WE HAVE A FIRST OUT TRUCK FOR DEPENDING ON THE CALL.
THAT'D BE THE END GOAL IS TO GET EVERYONE TO A POINT WHERE THEY'RE RUNNING A FIRST OUT TRUCK.
>> YOU'D BE TRAINED ON IT. WE ALREADY HAVE PROCESSES IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT DRIVERS ARE TRAINED, THEY CAN PUMP, THEY CAN USE ALL THE EQUIPMENT, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT TIMELINES, THE FACT THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIMELINE IS RIGHT NOW, WE CAN'T REALLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
BUT YES, THE EXPECTATION WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD WANT A CONSISTENT APPARATUS BASED ON THE CALL, NOT WHAT TRUCK AM I TAKING TODAY? THAT'D BE AN IDEAL STATE.
AGAIN, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE.
OBVIOUSLY, WE'D HAVE TO SET THAT TIME LINE WHEN WE KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS.
BUT YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A SIMPLE ANSWER IS TO BEN'S POINT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO WANT TO JUST TAKE A GUESS AT OR TAKING. WE ALL KNOW THAT.
AS FIREFIGHTERS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET ON SOMETHING UNFAMILIAR WITH OR BE EXPECTED TO DRIVE A TRUCK, OPERATE A TRUCK, OR A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT FOR THAT MATTER.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE WE'RE TRAINED FORWARD.
PUTTING SOMEONE IN A SITUATION THEY'RE EXPECTED TO USE IT. HOPEFULLY THAT HELPS.
>> IF I COULD ALSO ADD ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE AGREEMENT HERE IS, THIS IS MEANT TO BE A TRANSITIONAL AGREEMENT.
I WOULD SUBMIT THAT THE AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE BEFORE YOU WAS WAY TOO SPECIFIC FOR WHAT WE REALLY NEED, BUT WE'VE PASSED THAT BRIDGE.
ULTIMATELY, THE SPIRIT OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO
[03:50:02]
ACHIEVE IS GET THE TWO DEPARTMENTS TO START TRAINING TOGETHER AND START WORKING TOGETHER SO THAT AS WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE MERGING THE TWO DEPARTMENTS, WE'RE NOT STARTING AT SQUARE ZERO.AT LEAST FROM A CITY ADMINISTRATOR'S POINT OF VIEW, THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS HAVE THE LEADERSHIP IN BOTH DEPARTMENTS FIGURE OUT THAT TRAINING SCHEDULE BY WORKING TOGETHER AND WORKING WITH THEIR MEMBERSHIPS TO FIGURE ALL THAT OUT.
IT'S PROBABLY NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT ELECTED OFFICIALS OR CITY ADMINISTRATORS LAYING OUT A DETAILED TRAINING SCHEDULE.
>> NO, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT AT ALL, EVAN.
>> WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS GIVE THOSE LEADERSHIP OF THE TWO DEPARTMENTS THE GUIDANCE OF, YOU ARE GOING TO EMERGE AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, START WORKING TOGETHER, TRAINING TOGETHER, AND OPERATING TOGETHER, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHAT THEY NORMALLY DO AND WOULD BE DOING EVEN AS SEPARATE DEPARTMENTS, WE WORK WITH OUR NEIGHBORS.
WE JUST NEED TO GET TO A POINT WHERE THIS LITIGATION IS NOT STOPPING US FROM DOING NORMAL STUFF.
>> THERE'S NO DOUBT THEY'LL BE QUESTIONS ARE GOING TO COME UP ABOUT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S THINGS BEING DONE ON THIS SIDE THAT THE OTHER SIDE MIGHT NOT BE DOING OR VICE VERSA WHEN IT COMES TO STRATEGIES, TACTICS, WHERE IT MIGHT COME TO.
THOSE ARE ALL THINGS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME ACROSS AS WE GET TO THEM AND THOSE ARE ALL THE DECISIONS THAT WE MADE AND COMING TO A CONSENSUS BECAUSE BY NO MEANS ARE WE VIEWING IT AS WE'RE TAKING THIS OVER.
I'M SURE THEY'RE SHARING THE SAME OPINION THAT, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, WE WANT TO WORK TOGETHER, WE WANT TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT'S BETTER AS A TEAM.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE SUPPORTING THE COMMUNITIES WE'VE BEEN SUPPORTING FOR A LONG TIME, AND WE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THAT.
IT'S NOT ABOUT BEING ON MY SIDE AND THEIR SIDE, AND THIS IS MY TRUCK, THAT'S YOUR TRUCK.
WE WANT TO GET TO A POINT WHERE IT'S OUR TRUCKS, OUR PROCESS, OUR PROCEDURES.
THEN, AGAIN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE ALL SERVING THE COMMUNITIES WE SIGNED UP FOR.
HOW DOES YOUR CONCERN EXPRESSED IN NUMBER TWO MATCH WHAT YOU JUST SAID?
>> MY CONCERN IN NUMBER TWO IS THAT THE AGREEMENT ENVISIONS WHAT I BELIEVE WOULD BE THE PREMATURE FIRING OF OUR PAID ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS WHO REPRESENT A PORTION OF THE LEADERSHIP OF OUR DEPARTMENT AS WELL.
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION OF HOW PROCESS AND BUILDING AN ORGANIZATION.
>> IF WE DO THAT BEFORE WE'RE AT THE RIGHT POINT, THEN THAT CAN BE HUGELY DETRIMENTAL.
THAT ALSO PUTS THE CITY AT, AGAIN, MY OPINION, PUTS THE CITY AT RISK IS IF FOLLOW ON NEGOTIATIONS FALL APART.
IF WE DON'T GET TO A POINT WHERE WE ARE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE LONG TERM PLAN, WHICH I HOPE WE DO, BUT IF WE DON'T AND WE HAVE TO THEN TRY TO REBUILD A FIRE DEPARTMENT FROM SCRATCH, WE ARE AT A SERIOUS DISADVANTAGE.
>> THE CONTINGENCY WOULD BE THAT WE COULD EXTEND THE CONTRACT FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND WORK WITH LONG LAKE FOR ANOTHER YEAR.
>> CONCERN NUMBER TWO COULD BE ALLEVIATED BY HOW? BY RECOMMENDING THAT ALL ORONO FIREFIGHTERS BE RETAINED UNTIL SUCH A TIME AS AN ORDERLY MERGER TO THE NEW DEPARTMENT CAN BE REALIZED, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE TRAINING, WHICH WOULD BE INCLUDING INTEGRATING STAFFING MODELS, ALL THE ABOVE UNTIL YOU'RE READY TO HIT THE GO BUTTON ON THE MERGED ORGANIZATION, CORRECT?
>> YES. ACTUALLY, I THINK I PUT IN THERE A STEP FURTHER.
IDEALLY, WE DON'T ELIMINATE OUR PAID ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS.
WE JUST SIMPLY MERGE THEM INTO THIS NEW DEPARTMENT.
>> IT'S ADMINISTRATIVELY THE EASIEST THING TO DO, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT RELIEF ASSOCIATIONS, MERGING, AND ALL THE THINGS THOSE FOLKS ARE GOING TO NEED TO DO.
AS WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT, AND AGAIN, I REALIZE I'M IN A MINORITY OPINION HERE, BUT THAT IS MY OPINION AND RECOMMENDATION AS WE DO IT IN AN ORDERLY FASHION, AND I THINK THAT'S MORE ABOUT THE TIMING THAN IT IS ABOUT THE GOALS OF WHAT THE AGREEMENT SAYS.
>> YES. IS THAT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU JUST EXPRESSED, SIR?
>> THE EXPECTATION OF TIMELINE IS [OVERLAPPING].
>> THE EXPECTATION FOR TIMELINE.
>> [OVERLAPPING] FOR GETTING TO A TERM SHEET, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? [OVERLAPPING] THE EXPECTATION IS
[03:55:10]
THAT UPON WHICH OUR AGREEMENT IS BASED FALLS FOR ORONO'S ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS TO BE TERMINATED.>> AS SOON AS IT'S APPROVED BY ALL THE PARTIES.
>> WE'RE ESSENTIALLY GOING BACK TO DOING BEFORE JULY 1ST OF LAST YEAR.
IT'LL JUST BE A DAYTIME RESPONSE [INAUDIBLE]
>> IN THE MEANTIME, DURING THE DAY, WE'D HAVE OUR PART-TIMERS HAVE ACCESS TO STATION 2 AND STATION 1 TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND QUICKLY.
>> I'D LIKE TO HEAR, IF POSSIBLE, IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED IN OPINING FROM SOMEONE ON THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT ABOUT THAT POINT.
>> [OVERLAPPING] COME UP TO THE MIC, PLEASE.
>> FROM THE ORONO PERSPECTIVE, WE OBVIOUSLY SUPPORT THE CONSOLIDATION, AND WE ARE EAGER TO WORK WITH LONG LAKE IN ORDER TO DO THAT.
BUT I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE ARE INTENTIONAL IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT.
WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE PAID ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS FOR THE CITY OF ORONO WHO DO NOT WORK FOR THE CITY OF LONG LAKE, AND THEY ARE GOING TO BE COMPLETELY LEFT OUT IN THE DARK.
>> THEY HAVE THE ABILITY UNDER THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT TO APPLY FOR POSITIONS WITH LONG LAKE.
>> THEY DON'T WANT TO. [OVERLAPPING] THERE'S REASONS WHY THEY DON'T WANT TO.
THERE'S LEGITIMATE REASONS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO APPLY TO THE LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
THERE'S LEGITIMATE REASONS WHY THEY JOINED THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT, AND THEY ARE VALUED MEMBERS OF OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT.
AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT, WE DON'T HAVE EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF STAFFING.
THE TRANSITION THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, IF THEY'RE IMMEDIATELY FIRED ON WEDNESDAY WITH MEDINA APPROVING THIS, THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAID THAT THIS IS A LITTLE BIT PREMATURE, AND THAT IS WHERE THERE IS A RISK TO THE CITIZENS AT ORONO BECAUSE IT'S NOT AS EASY AS FLIPPING A SWITCH AND EVERYTHING JUST GOES BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS.
THERE IS A TRANSITION PERIOD THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF AND ALLOW STAFF TO WORK TOGETHER.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, POLITICIANS ARE IN THE BEST POSITION TO LAY THAT PLAN OUT.
I THINK IF YOU'VE GOT A BUNCH OF FIREFIGHTERS IN THE ROOM, WHICH I'VE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING, I THINK WE CAN GET YOU A SOLUTION THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE THAT EVERYBODY CAN LIVE WITH THAT ACCOUNTS FOR ALL THE NEEDS OF THE CITIZENS AND THE FIREFIGHTERS.
I WOULD SAY, A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE CONSOLIDATED, YOU'RE GOING TO START TO WORK TOGETHER, I WANT TO SEE A PLAN AT MAY, WHATEVER, PICK A DATE AND LET US WORK TOWARDS THAT PLAN.
I THINK WE COULD ALLEVIATE A LOT OF THE COMPLEXITIES AND NUANCES THAT, FRANKLY, DON'T NEED TO BE THERE.
I THINK THAT THIS IS WAY TOO DETAILED OF A FIRST PLAN.
GIVE US A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF WHERE YOU WANT US TO GO AND LET US DO OUR JOBS.
>> I GUESS THIS IS A PRACTICAL MATTER.
MAYBE I MISSPOKE WHEN I SAID PEOPLE WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY TERMINATED.
I THINK IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE AT OUR NEXT COUNCIL MEETING.
I WOULD NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE SAYING THAT BEFORE MEDINA AND LONG LAKE APPROVE THIS, THAT WE WOULD GO AHEAD AND AND TERMINATE PAID ON-CALL.
I'M THINKING THAT WOULD BE AT OUR NEXT MEETING, SO THAT WOULD GIVE A COUPLE OF WEEKS OF TIME TO COME UP WITH THOSE PLANS IF THAT'S IMPORTANT.
>> IS A COUPLE OF WEEKS SUFFICIENT TO PUT TOGETHER THAT TRANSITION PLAN? I'LL BE HAPPY TO HEAR FROM BOTH CHIEFS.
>> IS A COUPLE OF WEEKS ENOUGH? MORE WOULD BE BETTER.
[04:00:02]
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE.AS LONG AS WE CAN SIT IN THE SAME ROOM AND WE CAN HAMMER THROUGH THESE ISSUES, I THINK WE CAN COME TO A CONSENSUS, ABSOLUTELY.
BUT THE PAID ON-CALLS, THEY'RE A VERY INTEGRAL PART OF OUR ORGANIZATION RIGHT NOW, AND THEY DO FEEL A LOT OF SHIFTS.
THE EXPECTATION HOPEFULLY FROM THEM IS THAT THEY'LL STILL DO THIS.
IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT WHEN YOU ASK THEM AFTER THEY'VE BEEN TERMINATED TO COME BACK AND HELP YOU AGAIN.
THAT'S JUST WHAT I WANT TO STRESS THERE.
HOPEFULLY, WE CAN WORK THROUGH THOSE ISSUES.
I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYBODY ELSE SAY, AND I AGREE WITH A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT THEY SAID.
BUT PART OF THE THINGS RELATED TO THE TIMING AND STAFFING, IN MY OPINION, IS THAT BRINGING PAID ON-CALL BACK TOGETHER WILL ALLOW THEM TO START TRAINING TOGETHER NOW.
IF THE GOAL IS TO ALLOW THAT THEY NEED TO START TRAINING TOGETHER AND THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE A BENEFIT TO THE CITIES, THEN DOING THAT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER IS BETTER.
IT WILL IMMEDIATELY IMPROVE PUBLIC SAFETY IN THE NAVAR AREA BY ALLOWING 40 PLUS PAID ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS TO SERVE THAT AREA 24 HOURS A DAY.
THAT IS AN IMMEDIATE IMPROVEMENT.
I STRUGGLE WITH THE LANGUAGE OF TERMINATION.
>> ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE MERGING TERMINATED, OR ARE THEY ALLOWED OPPORTUNITY? ARE THEY GOING TO MERGE INTO ANOTHER DEPARTMENT? THE THREE FIREFIGHTERS THAT WE'RE REFERRING TO THAT DON'T WORK FOR LONG LAKE FIRE AS PAID ON-CALL, I BELIEVE TWO HAVE.
THERE ISN'T A FIRE DEPARTMENT IN THE WORLD IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO TURN AWAY VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS RIGHT NOW AS THAT VOLUNTEERISM DECLINES NATIONWIDE.
THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO BE WELCOME TO APPLY.
IF THEY DON'T WANT TO APPLY, ALL I HEAR FROM FIREFIGHTERS ALL OF THE TIME IS THAT THEY WANT TO SERVE THEIR COMMUNITY.
IS THAT WHAT IT IS OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE? AS FAR AS WHAT'S THE RUSH, THERE WAS NO PLAN FOR CROSS TRAINING OR ANY PLAN PUT TOGETHER IN PLACE THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT WAS PRESENTED TO COUNCIL WHEN ORONO FIRE WAS BEING PUT TOGETHER WITH NO EQUIPMENT AND UNDERSTAFFED AND BORROWING EQUIPMENT AND ALL OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
FURTHER, ORONO EQUIPMENT WAS PUT INTO USE BEFORE THOSE FIREFIGHTERS WERE TRAINED ON THOSE THINGS OR AT LEAST IT WAS BROUGHT IN AND THEY WERE BEING TRAINED. PLEASE.
>> WE NEED TO KEEP TO THE FACTS.
WE HAD A VERY DETAILED TRAINING PLAN.
WE SPENT EIGHT MONTHS TRAINING BEFORE WE TOOK OVER SERVICE.
>> YOU HAD EQUIPMENT IN PLACE RIGHT AWAY.
>> LET'S NOT CONTINUE TO PUT OUT FALSE INFORMATION.
>> YOU DIDN'T HAVE A LADDER TRUCK IN PLACE NEARLY IMMEDIATELY BEFORE RIGHT AWAY WHEN IT CAME.
EVERYONE WAS TRAINED ON THAT WHEN IT SHOWED UP? NO.
>> I'M SORRY. I ALSO THINK THAT IN REGARDS TO [OVERLAPPING].
>> THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT DID NOT START RESPONDING WITH THE LADDER TRUCK.
THE LADDER TRUCK CAME HERE FIRST.
WE WERE TRAINED ON IT BEFORE WE STARTED RESPONDING ON JULY 1ST.
>> IS A COUPLE OF WEEKS ENOUGH? A COUPLE OF WEEKS WAS ENOUGH FOR THE TRAINING WHEN ORONO FIRE WAS BEING PUT TOGETHER WITHOUT PUBLIC INPUT OR WITHOUT ANY PLAN, AGAIN, THAT I EVER SAW.
AGAIN, TWO, AS FAR AS THE STAFF. [OVERLAPPING].
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRAINING.
WE HAD EIGHT MONTHS WORTH OF TRAINING, SO IT WAS NOT TWO WEEKS.
>> JAMES, WE'LL GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO SPEAK.
KELLY, FINISH UP YOUR THOUGHT.
>> AS FAR AS THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, I PERSONALLY AM STRUGGLING WITH THEM BECAUSE WE SAT HERE AND WERE WATCHING STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS COME FORWARD FROM A CITY ADMINISTRATOR THAT IS CONTINUING TO PUSH FORWARD THE AGENDA OF A PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, DESPITE A [OVERLAPPING].
>> I'M SORRY. I ALLOWED TO SAY MY OPINION, AND THAT IS WHAT I AM SEEING.
I ALSO FEEL THAT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS COMING FROM THE CHIEF, WHO I HAVE RESPECTED AND WORKED WITH AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS, ALL OF HIS RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE A MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE HIS JOB DEPENDS ON ORONO FIRE MOVING FORWARD, AND I'M VERY, VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THAT.
THAT BEING SAID, THIS IS A REAL STRUGGLE FROM PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE. THANK YOU.
>> UNDERSTOOD THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH INDIVIDUALS HERE THAT WE ARE DEEPLY INDEBTED TO.
>> THINK ABOUT THE PAID ON-CALL FIRE FIGHTERS, AND CHIEF TOUCHED ON IT IS, WE'RE NOT JUST LIKE THE OVERNIGHT RESPONSE FROM ORONO.
WE ARE FILLING SHIFTS DURING THAT DUTY CREW MODEL.
[04:05:03]
IF THAT WINDOW OF TIME IS GOING TO STAY THE SAME, ORONO FIRE IS UNDERSTAFFED.TO PULL ALL THOSE PAID ON-CALL PEOPLE OUT OF THERE, YOU HAVE GAPS IN THE SCHEDULE.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT AT LEAST IN THE NEAR TERM, THAT IF THE PAID ON-CALL POSITIONS ARE TO GO AWAY, THAT THERE'S SOME PROVISION WHERE THE QUALIFIED ORONO FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE NOW LONG LAKE FIREFIGHTERS ONLY CAN FILL GAPS IN THE SHIFT IN ORONO SO THEY CAN RUN THE OFFICIAL DAYTIME DUTY.
I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY LEAVE THIS TO THE EXPERTS.
>> LET THEM COME UP WITH THE SOLUTIONS ARE.
>> I'LL JUST MAKE A COUPLE COMMENTS.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT. AGAIN, AND I SAID THIS EARLY ON.
WELL, SOME PEOPLE MAY THINK THAT THERE'S WAY TOO MUCH DETAIL EVEN IN SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS.
WE BELIEVE THAT WE STRIPPED OUT A TON OF THAT DETAIL BECAUSE WE BELIEVE AND HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THESE DEPARTMENTS TO PUT TOGETHER EFFECTIVE PLANS AROUND TRAINING, AROUND RESPONSE, AROUND MODELING A DUTY CREW THAT FITS WITHIN THE STRUCTURE OF HAVING ADDITIONAL PAIN ON CALL.
ALL OF THESE ELEMENTS CAN BE MANAGED THROUGH.
THE NEED TO HAVE A DUTY CREW FROM THIS TIME TO THIS TIME IF YOU INCREASE YOUR PAIN ON CALL, PRESENCE PROBABLY CHANGES.
OUR SENSE IS THAT ALONG WITH TRAINING, THERE'S GOING TO BE MODIFICATIONS TO WHAT THAT DUTY CREW MODEL SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT AND ONE OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE'VE ALWAYS MADE IS THAT WE WANTED TO BE VERY THOUGHTFULLY CONSIDER ABOUT THE IMPACTS THAT THIS WOULD HAVE ON THE FIREFIGHTERS.
PART OF THE REASON WHY WE ENSURED THAT THE FIREFIGHTERS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ONE IF THEY'RE NOT ON LONG LAKE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ON LONG LAKE IF THEY CHOOSE WAS FOR THAT VERY REASON TO NOT HAVE THEM HAVE TO WALK AWAY FROM AN OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THEIR COMMUNITY.
IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO THAT, THAT'S CERTAINLY THEIR DECISION.
THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD JUST ADD IS THAT WHEN WE CRAFTED A LOT OF THESE ELEMENTS WITHIN HERE, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE DID IT IN A WAY THAT SET UP THE DEPARTMENT TO BE ABLE TO CONSOLIDATE IN A VERY EFFECTIVE MANNER.
THAT WAS REALLY WHAT WAS THE OUTPUT OF A LOT OF THESE DOCUMENTS.
AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT PERFECT TO EITHER SIDE.
I THINK THAT EVERYONE, EVEN OUR PARTNERS IN LONG LAKE WOULD SAY THAT TOO, BUT THERE WAS A PROCESS OF MAKING SURE THAT WE HAD DISCUSSIONS AROUND WHAT WE NEEDED TO COMPROMISE ON.
OUR APPROACH TO THIS IS THAT INSTEAD OF HAVING AN UPPER HAND IN THESE CONVERSATIONS, IT WAS TO HAVE AN EQUAL HAND AS WE MOVE FORWARD TO BE PARTNERS WITH THEM.
ARE WE VOTING FOR THE TERMS IN EXHIBIT D, AS THEY'RE WRITTEN UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'RE SUBJECT TO CHANGE THROUGH ADDITIONAL NEGOTIATIONS?
>> I THINK WHAT THIS SAYS IS THAT THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT UNTIL A JPA OR FIRE DISTRICT IS EXECUTED, THAT TERMS SET FORTH IN EXHIBIT D ARE NON BINDING.
BUT THEY'RE AGREED UPON AS THE BASIS FOR WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DRAFT IN A JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT.
FRANKLY AS EVERYBODY KNOWS, WE'VE BEEN NEGOTIATING THIS FOR MONTHS, AND WE'VE HAD I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MEETINGS.
>> PROBABLY MORE THAN THAT. THE FACT IS EXHIBIT D WAS NOT TERRIBLY CONTROVERSIAL.
THE COMBINED DEPARTMENT WE REALLY HAD GENERAL AGREEMENT ON VERY QUICKLY.
IT'S MOSTLY BEEN THIS, HOW DO WE DO THIS INTERIM PERIOD OF TIME AND GET THIS TRANSITION PERIOD DONE IN A WAY THAT IS A GOOD STEP TOWARDS THE JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT? IF THIS GETS PASSED, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING A JOINT PUBLIC FORUM WITH LONG LAKE TO HAVE THE COMMUNITY COME AND GIVE US IMPACT, OR GIVE US THEIR IMPRESSIONS OF IT.
>> IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THANK YOU, MAYOR.
[04:10:03]
IN EXHIBIT D, SINCE WE LAST REVIEWED AS A COUNCIL, THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK ABOUT.WE WERE MORE SPECIFIC, I BELIEVE, UNDER ITEM 7 FOR CAPITAL.
RIGHT NOW, IT SAYS, CURRENT OWNERSHIP OF VEHICLES AND EQUIPMENT STAYS IS, REVENUES FROM DISPOSAL OF ACCESS EQUIPMENT TO BE ADDED TO THE DEPARTMENT CAPITAL FUND.
CURRENTLY THERE ISN'T AN EQUITY BETWEEN WHAT THOSE REVENUES WOULD LOOK LIKE BETWEEN THE CITIES.
>> THE REVENUES FROM DISPOSAL OF EXCESS EQUIPMENT.
>> THAT WOULD JUST GO INTO THE CAPITAL FUND.
>> ORONO'S PORTION OF THE CAPITAL FUND.
>> HOW WOULD YOU ENVISION THE CAPITAL FUND BEING MANAGED?
>> [OVERLAPPING] BY THE LEADERSHIP.
>> THERE'S A RECOGNITION OF CONTRIBUTION BY THE [OVERLAPPING].
>> YEAH. WE WOULD NOT BE GIVING UP OUR VALUE ON OUR ASSET DISPROPORTIONATELY BY DOING SO.
>> NO, THE THOUGHT IS THAT THE CONTRACT CITIES WOULD PUT, IN THIS CASE, THE DISPOSITION OF ANY SOLD EQUIPMENT WOULD GO INTO ORONO'S BUCKET OF THE CAPITAL FUND WITHIN THAT NEW ORGANIZATION.
>> THAT'S STILL OF SPECIFICITY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HERE.
>> THAT WASN'T REALLY EVER A POINT OF CONTENTION.
>> IT'S NOT THE DETAIL THAT WAS PUT INTO THIS DOCUMENT.
>> FOR THE RECORD, REVENUES FROM EXCESS EQUIPMENT FROM EACH MUNICIPALITY WOULD GO INTO THEIR PORTION OF THE CAPITAL FUND AND THE CAPITAL FUND IS REPLENISHED PROPORTIONATELY AS WELL, ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNING BODY, AND THERE ISN'T A COMINGLING AND AN EQUITY.
WE'RE NOT REBALANCING THINGS BY MAYBE DISTRIBUTING A LITTLE BIT MORE OF ORONO'S CAPITAL INTO THE LONG LAKES OR MEDINA'S PORTION.
IT'S GOING TO BE RESERVED AS AN ASSET TO THE CITY.
I'M TALKING TO ORONO TAXPAYERS RIGHT NOW.
HERE'S YOUR VALUE. WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE VALUE.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE. AM I ASKING A QUESTION THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU?
>> ONE CAVEAT TO THAT IS WE STILL HAVE AN OUTSTANDING LAWSUIT.
THAT MAY BE A WAY TO SETTLE THE LAWSUIT, IS IF WE DID A LITTLE BIT OF DISPROPORTIONATE.
>> THAT'S WHERE I WAS HEADING.
THE SETTLEMENT OF LEGAL CLAIMS NUMBER 8.
THE NEGOTIATING TEAMS HAVE AGREED TO A PRELIMINARY FRAMEWORK TO SETTLE ALL LEGAL ACTIONS BROUGHT BY LONG LAKE VERSUS ORONO.
>> THAT IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHEN WE GO TO CLOSE SESSION. [OVERLAPPING] ACTIVE LITIGATION.
>> I HAVE A HARD TIME SAYING THUMBS UP TO THAT, IF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.
I THINK THAT ORONO CITIZENS SHOULD ALSO HAVE THAT LEVEL OF CONCERN.
>> I DON'T THINK WE'RE ASKING FOR APPROVAL ON SETTLEMENT TERMS TONIGHT.
WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE GENERAL FRAMEWORK UNDER WHICH WE WOULD THEN ASK OUR COUNCIL.
>> THE GENERAL FRAMEWORK, AS YOU WERE JUST ALLUDING TO, WOULD INCLUDE PAYING OFF, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF LONG LAKE'S LEGAL FEES WITH THAT EXCESS CAPITAL FROM REVENUE.
>> NOT DIRECTLY, BUT THROUGH SOME SHIFTING OF CAPITAL.
>> [NOISE] ORONO TAXPAYERS, I HOPE YOU HEARD THAT.
>> NO, WE'RE NOT. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT IS? IT'S $450,000.
>> THE JUDGES HAVE NOT SPOKEN.
>> JUST THE 82,000, THEY HAVE.
>> THEY'VE SPOKEN FOR A BIT OF IT, 82,000, AND THE LEAGUE OF MINNESOTA CITIES IN THE INSURANCE TRUST IS COVERING THAT.
ORONO IS NOT ON THE HOOK FOR THAT.
THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT TRUE, MA'AM, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
THERE'S A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT THERE.
[04:15:02]
WE'RE EFFECTIVELY BY DOING THIS, SETTLING THE LAWSUIT.I'M NOT SURE IF EVERYBODY GETS THAT OR WHAT THE IMPACT AND CONSEQUENCE TO ORONO TAXPAYERS IS.
IF ORONO TAXPAYERS ARE SUPER FINE WITH THAT EXPENDITURE, BUT HAVE TROUBLE SPENDING $40,000 TO GET TO A PROJECT TO WHERE IT SHOULD BE STABLE AND SALVABLE FOR AN ASSET THAT WE'RE BUILDING FOR THE CITY, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG THERE IN THAT LOGIC IN MY BOOK.
ALL DOLLARS SHOULD BE VALUABLE.
I KNOW YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T WANT TO GO THERE, GUYS, BUT I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY, I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS ALL ALONG THAT WE NEEDED MORE PUBLIC INPUT AND MORE CONVERSATION.
WE NEEDED MUCH MORE INPUT FROM OUR FIREFIGHTERS FROM BOTH DEPARTMENTS.
YOU'VE HAD SUCCESSFUL CONVERSATIONS, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT NEGOTIATION IS SENSITIVE, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE TOO BIG OF A TENT FOR THOSE CONVERSATIONS, BUT PERIODICALLY, YOU GOT TO BRING PEOPLE IN, LET THEM KNOW HOW IT'S GOING, GIVE THEM REAL INFORMATION, AND HEAR THE FEEDBACK.
THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST TIME WE'VE DONE THIS.
WE ARE WELL DOWN THIS ROAD BECAUSE WE'RE ABOUT TO TAKE A VOTE ON IT.
I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THE PROCESS, BUT HERE WE ARE.
>> I'D LIKE TO KNOW THAT, TOO.
>> THE ADVANTAGE IS WE GET TO A DEAL.
>> CAN YOU GUYS COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK SO THAT WE CAN HEAR ONE OF YOU AT A TIME.
WE'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS, BUT JUST COME ON UP IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK, PLEASE.
>> IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.
IT IS ALSO TRYING TO GET TO A JOINTLY OPERATED DEPARTMENT WHEN WE STILL HAVE TWO SEPARATE FIRE DEPARTMENTS, ONE THAT'S PROVIDING THE PAID ON CALL, ONE THAT'S PROVIDING THE DUTY CREWS.
I THINK IT MAKES FOR A BETTER TRANSITION TO HAVE THOSE CLEAR LINES OF RESPONSIBILITY VERSUS, IS ORONO'S PAID GOING OUT ON THIS CALL OR IS LONG LAKES PAID ON CALL? BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH COVERING THE SAME TERRITORY.
FRANKLY, MOST OF THEM ARE SERVING ON BOTH DEPARTMENTS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE CONFUSION IF THAT'S THE CASE.
>> BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT, BECAUSE IF THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO BE HIRED OVER ONCE THEY'RE TERMINATED FROM ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT TO BE HIRED OVER IN LONG LAKE FIRE DEPARTMENT FOR DOING THE EXACT SAME THING WHEN EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME CALLS.
THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME.
YOU GUYS COME ON UP HERE AND TALK.
[LAUGHTER] I'VE NEVER BEEN IN YOUR SHOES.
I WANT TO KNOW FROM THE EXPERTS OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE, PLEASE.
>> STRICTLY PAID ON CALL SIDE.
DUTY OFFICERS, WHO'S THE DUTY OFFICERS? YOU'RE PAID ON CALL PEOPLE? BEN BEACH, CHRIS ADAMS, RYAN K IVY, CRAWL.
>> JB SEALS. GENERALLY, IT'S A LOT OF OVERLAP.
CHRIS ADAMS MIGHT RUN, SAY, THREE DAYS IN A ROW FOR LONG LAKE FIRE.
YOU MIGHT FOLLOW UP A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER LONG LAKES, DO YOU? IT'S A LOT OF OVERLAP, BUT I THINK OVERNIGHT, I THINK WE CAN CLEAN UP.
CHRIS AND I WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS.
IT'S NO SECRET. YOU GUYS WON'T GET A TON OF OVERNIGHT CALLS.
GUYS ARE GOING TO GET MORE CALLS WITH THE LONG LAKE PAID ON CALL SIDE.
IT'S JUST COVERING MORE TERRITORY.
THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT'S GOING TO WORK.
CHRIS IS JUST JOKING. WE WANT TO ROLL THAT BED FOR THE ONE OR TWO.
AGAIN, FIREFIGHTERS LOVE GOING ON CALLS.
IT GIVES THEM ACCESS, MORE CALLS.
IN AN AREA THAT WE'VE ALREADY BEEN SERVING, WHY OVERLAP THESE PEOPLE AND BURN THEM OUT DOING TWO DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS WHEN AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE DOING THE SAME THING? I AGREE THAT IF IT WAS PEOPLE THAT WE DON'T KNOW AND THEY'RE BRAND NEW, THAT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION.
BUT THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE DOING THE SAME JOBS ON POSSIBLY BACK TO BACK NIGHTS, TWO DIFFERENT CITIES.
>> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT, AND YOU'RE 100% RIGHT.
[04:20:02]
I THINK IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE DUTY OFFICER.I THINK THAT REALLY CLEANS IT UP.
WHERE IT FALLS DOWN PRETTY SHARPLY IN MY MIND IS ON SHIFT.
YES, FIREFIGHTERS LIKE TO GO ON CALLS.
BUT IN 2025, FIREFIGHTERS ALSO LIKE TO LIVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND NOT WRAP THEIR LIVES AROUND A PAGER.
FOUR HUNDRED AND SIXTY SIX TIMES LAST YEAR, LONG LAKE FIREFIGHTERS HAD TO INTERRUPT THEIR LIVES TO GO ON A CALL.
I HAVE NOTHING BUT MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF RESPECT FOR THEM.
BUT THERE IS A MUCH MORE MODERN MODEL OUT THERE THAT ELIMINATES AND ALLOWS THEM TO HAVE A WORK LIFE BALANCE, BE FATHERS, COACHES, WHERE THEY CAN PLAN OUT WHEN THEY'RE READY TO GO ON CALLS BY WORKING DUTY CREW SHIFTS.
THAT IS WHAT CHRIS WAS TALKING ABOUT.
THAT'S WHAT BEN WAS TALKING ABOUT.
OUR PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS FILL A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF OUR DUTY CREWS SHIFTS DURING THE DAY.
IF YOU STRIP US AWAY FROM THAT, OUR ONLY OPTION IS GOING TO BE TO HAVE TO HIRE MORE PART TIME PEOPLE, WHICH ISN'T VERY EASY.
I THINK IT REALLY HASTENS THE ROAD TO BRINGING FULL-TIME FIREFIGHTERS INTO THE CITY OF ORONO.
TO KELLY'S POINT, I 100% AGREE, WE SHOULD GET PEOPLE TOGETHER.
I'VE WORKED FOR A COMBINATION FIRE DEPARTMENT THAT HAS A VERY CLEAR DELINEATION BETWEEN FULL-TIME FIREFIGHTERS AND PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS.
THE HARDER AND LONGER YOU STRESS THAT DIVISION, THE WORSE THAT CULTURE AND THE ESPRIT DE CORPS IN THAT DEPARTMENT IS.
A FIREFIGHTER IS A FIREFIGHTER.
WHETHER YOU'RE PAID ON CALL, FULL-TIME, PART-TIME, VOLUNTEER, THAT IS THE MOTTO THAT WE SHOULD BRING TO THIS.
BY SAYING WE'RE GOING TO SEND ALL THE PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS OVER TO LONG LAKE AND LEAVE THE PART-TIME'S HERE, WHAT YOU'RE DOING, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S INTENTIONAL, YOU ARE DIVIDING AND DRIVING A BIGGER WEDGE INTO THIS CONSOLIDATED FIRE DEPARTMENT CULTURALLY BEFORE IT EVEN STARTS.
I THINK THAT'S A HUGE MISTAKE.
IF YOU WANT US TO WORK ON CULTURE, GIVE US THE DIRECTION TO TRAIN TOGETHER, TO WORK TOGETHER, TO GO ON CALLS TOGETHER AS FIREFIGHTERS.
WE ARE ALL HERE FOR THE SAME REASONS TO PROTECT OUR CITIZENS.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU DO IT AT PAID ON CALL OR PART-TIME.
IT DOES MATTER IF IT FITS INTO YOUR LIFE OR NOT.
IF IT DOESN'T, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE FIREFIGHTERS ANYMORE AT ALL, AND THERE'S PEOPLE LINING UP AT THE DOOR TO BE PAID ON CALL FIREFIGHTERS AROUND HERE.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WANT A 20-HOUR JOB, DANGEROUS, FILTHY, HARD WORKING SIDE JOB IN THE AREA.
WE MIGHT LOSE TWO RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
TO ME, THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE FOR ZERO GAIN.
>> CODY FARLEY SAYS, CHIEF OF ORONO FIRE, YOU TALKED ABOUT A WEDGE CONTINUING TO BE DRIVEN.
I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE WEDGE IS ALREADY DRIVEN ALL THE WAY DOWN, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO GET ANY WORSE, UNLESS YOU TRY TO MAINTAIN TWO SEPARATE FIRE DEPARTMENTS.
REALLY BRINGING ALL OF THESE EFFORTS BACK UNDERNEATH ONE ROOF IS REALLY THE ONLY WAY FORWARD.
WHILE THERE ARE A LOT OF DEPARTMENTS OUT THERE MOVING TO DUTY CREWS, AND IT WORKS, AND IT CAN WORK, THESE TWO FIRE DEPARTMENTS RESPOND TO 500 PLUS OR MINUS CALLS A YEAR.
IT'S MOSTLY SERVED BY PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS COMMUNITY, HAVE FULL TIME JOBS OUTSIDE OF THIS COMMUNITY, SOMETIMES INSIDE OF THIS COMMUNITY, KIDS WITH ACTIVITIES, WE'RE COACHES, WE'RE DOING ALL THESE THINGS.
FOR THE MOST PART, WE DON'T ALSO HAVE TIME TO SERVE A DUTY SHIFT OR TWO A WEEK, PLUS DUTY OFFICER SHIFT OR TWO OR THREE OR FOUR A MONTH.
JUST GIVEN THE AREA WE LIVE, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST MODEL, THE BEST PATH FORWARD.
WHAT HAS ULTIMATELY RUINED THIS GRAND FIRE EXPERIMENT THAT WE'RE ALL LIVING IN RIGHT NOW IS THE ONE BIGGEST THING IN MY OPINION, IS THE EFFORT TO TRY TO MAINTAIN TWO SEPARATE PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIPS.
THAT HAS CRUSHED BOTH OF THESE PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIPS.
NEITHER OF THEM ARE AS BIG AS THEY OUGHT TO BE.
NEITHER OF THEM ARE AS BIG AS WE WANT THEM TO BE, NEITHER OF THEM ARE FULL OF THE ENERGY THAT THEY CAN BE, BECAUSE THIS COMMUNITY JUST ISN'T BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT.
HAVING TWO PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIPS IS REALLY WHAT'S CRUSHING THE WHOLE THING.
THE SOONER WE BRING THOSE ASPECTS BACK TOGETHER, WE INVITE THEM ALL OVER TO THE OTHER PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIP, MAKE THEM ONE, RIGHT AWAY THINGS GET BETTER.
THE PART TIME DUTY CREWS JUST ENHANCE WHAT WE HAVE GOING AS LONG AS WE'RE ABLE TO OPERATE UNDER THE SAME UMBRELLA OF ONE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
I WOULD ARGUE THAT TRYING TO MAINTAIN TWO WILL JUST CONTINUE TO DRIVE THAT WEDGE DEEPER.
>> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY SEES THAT AS THE LONG-TERM GOAL AT ALL.
WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW TO TRANSITION.
JUST TACTICALLY, HOW DO YOU GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B?
[04:25:04]
DO YOU LOSE OPPORTUNITY OR OPTIONS OR CAPACITY BY ELIMINATING THE PAID ON-CALL TWO WEEKS FROM NOW? I REALLY DON'T KNOW.BUT TO ME, AS A PERSON WHO HAS LIVED AND MANAGED LARGE TEAMS AND LARGE BUDGETS AND LOTS OF STUFF OVER MANY DECADES, YOU WANT TO PROTECT YOUR OPTIONS.
THIS TO ME DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S PROTECTING OPTIONS.
>> JAMES, HOW BIG IS YOUR PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIP CURRENTLY?
>> EIGHT. YOUR TYPICAL RESPONSE FOR ANY GIVEN CALL FROM A PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIP IS AROUND 30%.
RIGHT AWAY TODAY, AND FOR THE ENTIRE EXISTENCE OF THE ORONO FIRE DEPARTMENT, YOUR PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIP HAS BEEN SUBSTANDARD TO RESPOND TO AN EVENT.
LET ALONE AN EVENT THAT REQUIRED MULTIPLE TRUCKS AND MULTIPLE CREWS.
ORONO FIRE HAS A MEMBERSHIP THAT IS ADEQUATELY STAFFED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE 30% AND HAVE IT BE AN ADEQUATE STAFF TO MITIGATE AN INCIDENT, GIVEN THE NUMBERS OF PAID ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS WE HAVE.
THE PLAN HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER, BUT IT'S NOT THERE YET, AND IT'S NOT ADEQUATE.
BUT IF YOU PUT THESE TWO PAID ON-CALL MEMBERSHIPS TOGETHER, YOU DO HAVE AN ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF PAID ON-CALL FIREFIGHTERS TO RESPOND TO ANY GIVEN INCIDENT.
THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS YOU'RE NOT DOING IT RIGHT NOW.
TAKING THIS STEP THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT WILL PROVIDE A MUCH BETTER RESPONSE TO THE ENTIRETY OF ORONO, BETTER THAN IT WAS YESTERDAY.
>> I APPRECIATE CODY'S MATH, BUT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT HOW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE [LAUGHTER] I'M CONFUSED ON HOW ADDING THE SAME PEOPLE TO A NUMBER GETS YOU A HIGHER NUMBER, IT'S JUST CATEGORICALLY FALSE [BACKGROUND] FORTY PEOPLE TO WHAT?
>> LETS SAY YOU GET A CALL [INAUDIBLE] BASEBALL.
YOU HAVE ACCESS TO [INAUDIBLE]
>> WE HAVE ACCESS TO MULTIPLE GROUPS OF PEOPLE JUST LIKE EVERY FIRE DEPARTMENT DOES WITH OUR MUTUAL AID PARTNERS.
>> NO, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OUR DUTY CREW PEOPLE OR OUR DUTY OFFICER HANDLE IT.
>> [INAUDIBLE] CALL AFTER ALL.
>> WE HAVE LIFT ASSIST ALL THE TIME AFTER HOURS, AND WE'VE NEVER NOT HAD THE RESPONSE FOR IT.
WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR NINE MONTHS.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE IN SOME BETA TEST AND WE'RE SEEING HOW THINGS ARE GOING.
WE KNOW OUR SYSTEM WORKS, WE KNOW IT'S EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE.
WE DON'T HAVE TO PAGE OUT 40 PEOPLE AND PAY THEM TO HANDLE 99% OF OUR CALLS, AND THE 1% OF THE CALLS WE DO NEED EXTRA PEOPLE.
WE HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISHED MUTUAL AID AGREEMENTS WITH OUR NEIGHBORS, AND THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO COME AND HELP US PUT OUT THE FIRE.
WHETHER THIS AREA SUPPORTS IT OR NOT, THIS IS THE MUCH MORE MODERN WAY THAT FIRE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE GOING.
I AGREE THAT THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE AREA, BUT IT'S NOT UNIQUE IN THE FACT THAT MODERN FIRE SERVICE MODEL MAKES SENSE FOR THE TAXPAYERS, THE FIREFIGHTERS, AND ULTIMATELY THE SAFETY OF THE CITIZENS.
>> I'D LIKE TO SPEAK, I HAVEN'T SPOKEN.
IT'S GETTING VERY LATE, AND WE STILL HAVE A CLOSED SESSION, SO I WANT TO SAY TWO THINGS.
THIS AGREEMENT IS MOVING THE CITY OF ORONO AND LONG LAKE TOWARD THE SHARED SERVICE MODEL, WHICH HAS BEEN A GOAL.
IT ALSO ALLOWS INDIVIDUALS WHO CHOOSE TO CONTINUE TO SERVE AS PAID ON-CALL THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.
WITH THAT SAID, I'M GOING TO CALL THE QUESTION. I THINK IT'S TIME.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M HEARING MORE, I THINK THIS HAS BEEN MONTHS OF CAREFUL NEGOTIATIONS.
I'M NOT TRYING TO STIFLE HEALTHY DEBATE OR PERSPECTIVES.
WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE PEOPLE SPEAK MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IS GETTING VERY LATE, AND WE HAVE A CLOSED SESSION AS WELL.
>> I INITIATED ALL THE INPUT FROM THE FIREFIGHTERS, WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THEM.
>> THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING THAT.
>> YOU'RE CALLING THE QUESTION?
>> I GUESS, ARE YOU PREPARED TO MAKE A MOTION?
>> I AM. I WILL BE WHEN I GET TO IT.
LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY. I MOVE TO APPROVE THE DRAFT FIRST AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT AND CONTRACT FOR FIRE PROTECTION.
>> IS THERE FURTHER DISCUSSION?
>> MR. MAYOR, I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR ANY OF THE POINTS, I UNDERSTAND WE WANT TO GET GOING.
[04:30:02]
THE AGREEMENT IS GOING TO BE CIRCULATED, MY UNDERSTANDING TO THE OTHER TWO COMMUNITIES.THERE ARE ASPECTS OF THIS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE IMPLEMENTED.
I THINK WHILE IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO BE MADE PART OF THE MOTION, JUST AN UNDERSTANDING THAT ANY PART OF THE IMPLEMENTATION THAT IS CONTEMPLATED IN THIS WON'T HAPPEN NECESSARILY TOMORROW.
WE WILL BRING FORWARD AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN TO YOUR COUNCIL MEETING.
>> TO THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING.
>> ANY APPROVAL IN HERE INHERENT IN THAT IS IN MY OPINION, SUBJECT TO THE OTHER TWO COMMUNITIES, IT'S MEANT TO BE AN AGREEMENT WITH EVERYONE SIGNING ON.
IF FOR SOME REASON IT ISN'T ADOPTED BY THE OTHER COMMUNITIES.
>> ONE, THERE WON'T BE AN IMPLEMENTATION PLAN, BUT THE AGREEMENT WON'T BE BINDING ON OR EITHER.
I JUST THROW THAT OUT THERE FOR A POINT OF CLARIFICATION.
IF THERE'S QUESTIONS ON IT, I'LL ANSWER.
>> THAT A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO YOUR MOTION?
>> SECOND, IT IS OKAY WITH IT AS WELL.
>> I AM STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF MOVING FORWARD WITH JOINT POWER AGREEMENT AS THE OUTCOME AT THE END OF THE DAY.
I WOULD BE MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE THAT WE APPROVE THE SHORT-TERM WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PUT TOGETHER A TRANSITION PLAN FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
IT WOULD BE CONTINGENT ON THE ACCEPTABILITY OF THAT TRANSITION PLAN.
I'M REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE JUST SAYING THIS IS WHAT IT IS, AND JUST HOPING WE FIGURE IT OUT ONLY FOR THAT REASON.
BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE LONG-TERM APPROACH, I BELIEVE THAT THE CITIES CAN GET TO THE RIGHT PLACE, MUTUALLY AGREEABLE TERMS. I HOPE THEY ARE SATISFACTORY TO ORONO TAXPAYERS AND LONG LAKE TAXPAYERS AND ALL FIREFIGHTERS ALIKE, ALL STAFF.
I'M UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE LACK OF A SPECIFIC TRANSITION PLAN, BECAUSE THAT MATTERS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, AND IT MATTERS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IMPACTED.
>> ANYTHING ELSE? ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION SAY AYE.
>> DO WE NEED A SEPARATE MOTION FOR THE SECOND ITEM HERE?
>> THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION TO YOU ALL.
>> DIRECTING STAFF TO PREPARE A JOINT POWERS AGREEMENT.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF WE NEEDED A DIFFERENT MOTION FOR THAT.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO TABLE THAT UNTIL WE HEAR ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CLOSED SESSION.
DO WE HAVE ANY COMMITTEE REPORTS?
>> NO, THERE WERE NO MEETINGS.
>> MAYOR, COUNCIL REPORTS. WE'LL START WITH STEVE.
>> I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING, THANK YOU.
>> I GUESS IT'S SMALL IN COMPARISON TO EVERYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT.
THE GILLESPIE CENTER HAD THEIR ANNUAL MEETING, AND THIS YEAR THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO INTO THEIR ENDOWMENT, AND THEY WERE ALL PRETTY EXCITED ABOUT IT. THAT'S A BIG ACHIEVEMENT.
>> NICE. I GUESS FROM MY REPORT, LOTS OF EFFORTS RECENTLY TO STRENGTHEN OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH LOCAL MAYORS AND REPRESENTATIVES.
JUST IN THE PAST, LITTLE OVER A WEEK, [LAUGHTER] I HAVE MET WITH THE MAYORS FROM MINNETONKA AND SPRING PARK INDIVIDUALLY.
WE HAVE MET WITH LONG LAKE REPRESENTATIVES, INCLUDING THE MAYOR ON FIRE NEGOTIATIONS, OBVIOUSLY.
WAS AT THE NORTHWEST HENNEPIN MAYOR'S MEETING LAST WEDNESDAY, REGIONAL COUNCIL MAYOR'S LUNCH TODAY.
COMMUNITY BREAKFAST AT ORONO SCHOOLS LAST WEEK AND A HALF AGO, I GUESS, TO HONOR MAR JOHNSON, RETIRING MAYOR OF INDEPENDENCE.
MET WITH SENATOR ANN JOHNSON STEWART, ALONG WITH MAYOR CHARLIE MINOR LAST WEEK, AND THEN HAD BREAKFAST TODAY WITH
[04:35:01]
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY MORRISON AND VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE MAYORS IN HER CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.I'VE BEEN BUSY MEETING WITH A LOT OF OTHER MAYORS, [LAUGHTER] AND I VIEW THAT AS A REALLY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THIS JOB.
I WANTED TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THAT I WAS DUTIFULLY FOLLOWING THE PLEDGE THAT I MADE EARLIER TO IMPROVE OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MAYORS.
THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO NOTE IS I AM LEAVING ON NEXT TUESDAY WITH A GROUP FROM MY CHURCH, WE'RE GOING TO GREECE AND TURKEY.
IT'S A TRIP CALLED IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF ST. PAUL.
IT'S BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, FAR BEFORE I HAD ANY INKLING I WAS GOING TO RUN FOR MAYOR.
I WILL HAVE TO MISS THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING, AND COUNCIL PERSON BENSON WILL BE THE MAYOR PRO TEM IN MY ABSENCE.
SHE WILL BE RUNNING THE NEXT MEETING, BUT I WILL BE BACK AGAIN ON MAY 5TH.
LOOKING FORWARD TO THE TRIP, BUT IT COULD HAVE HAD BETTER TIMING, I GUESS.
ANYWAY, THAT'S IT FOR MY COMMENTS.
I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE INTO CLOSED SESSION.
[Closed Session]
THERE'S MAGIC LANGUAGE.>> MAYOR, MAY I MAKE A QUICK INQUIRY?
>> WE DO HAVE TWO CLOSED SESSIONS ON THE AGENDA.
ONE OF THEM IS A PERFORMANCE REVIEW, AND ONE OF THEM IS TO DISCUSS THE LITIGATION.
ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAD PUT ITEM 20 AFTER THE CLOSED SESSION WAS IF THERE WERE QUESTIONS THAT NEEDED TO BE ANSWERED IN CLOSED SESSION TO ACT ON THAT AGREEMENT, WE COULD HAVE THAT DISCUSSION BEFOREHAND.
I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S STILL A FEELING TO HAVE THE CLOSED SESSION REGARDING THE LITIGATION, GIVEN WE'VE ADOPTED THE AGREEMENT.
THERE'S NOT A LOT TO NECESSARILY UPDATE ON THE STATUS OF THE LITIGATION.
WE CAN CERTAINLY STILL DO IT IF FOLKS WOULD LIKE TO, OR GIVEN IT'S 10:45, DO WE WANT TO MOVE TO THE PERFORMANCE EVALUATION?
>> I CERTAINLY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATION TACTICS.
CITY COUNCIL MAY CLOSE THE MEETING PURSUANT TO MINNESOTA STATUTE SECTION 13D 0.05 SUBDIVISION 3B IN ORDER TO CONFER WITH THE CITY'S LEGAL COUNSEL ON OUR OUTSTANDING LITIGATION MATTER WITH THE CITY OF LONG LAKE.
BALANCING THE POWERS OF ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE, INCLUDING THE NEED TO CONFER WITH LEGAL COUNSEL ON LITIGATION STRATEGY AGAINST THE PURPOSES OF THE OPEN MEETING LAW, DEMONSTRATES THE NEED FOR ABSOLUTE CONFIDENTIALITY.
IS THERE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE MEETING?
>> ALL THOSE OPPOSE, SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES.
NOW, I'D LIKE TO ASK ALL MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT AREN'T ALREADY GONE TO LEAVE, I GUESS. [LAUGHTER] THANK YOU.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.